bonus

🎙️*BONUS* Interview with Norman Buckley and Caroline Lagerfelt

Grab your waffles, Upper East Siders — this week we’re serving up a special treat! Leif and Steve are joined by Gossip Girl royalty: director/producer Norman Buckley and the iconic Caroline Lagerfelt (a.k.a. CeCe Rhodes).

We go behind the scenes of the Upper East Side to talk about:

✨ Norman’s approach to directing some of the series’ most memorable episodes

✨ Caroline’s experience bringing Serena’s glamorous grandmother to life

✨ Fun set stories, character insights, and how Gossip Girl became a cultural phenomenon

✨ Why the show still resonates years later with old fans and new watchers alike

Whether you’re a longtime fan or tuning in for your first rewatch, this episode is full of juicy insider tea you won’t want to miss.

Press play and let’s brunch Gossip Girl style! 🥂


Norman Buckley

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0118665/

@norbuck on all Social Medial

http://normanbuckley.com


Caroline Lagerfelt

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0481222/

@mslagerfelt on social media.


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Produced by Leif Capicola and Steve Marchion. 

Edited and mixed by Leif Capicola.

The Gossip Girl Theme Performed By Steve Marchion.

Transcript
Caroline Lagerfelt:

Okay.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I sort of had a bit of a genre for quite a while around that age where I played

Caroline Lagerfelt:

rich old bitches and a lot of rich women.

Leif:

Hey, Upper Eastsiders and all.

Leif:

You scandal loving listeners out there.

Leif:

You just tuned it to the non-judging breakfast pod where the coffee is

Leif:

strong, the waffles are fresh, and the gossip is hotter than ever.

Leif:

My name is Leif and I'm your seasoned gossip girl veteran.

Leif:

And I'm Steve, the newbie, the greenhorn, the, I don't know, Leif.

Leif:

What are we calling me today?

Leif:

I think they would label you as a project, you know, the type of girl

Leif:

that has the potential to be a blairite.

Steve:

Well, go ahead and dress me up in an Eleanor Waldorf

Steve:

original and let's get started.

Steve:

Sounds good.

Steve:

So here's the deal folks.

Steve:

Leif has been watching Gossip Girl since the beginning, and

Steve:

I'm diving in for the first time.

Steve:

And together we're your dynamic duo, bringing you all the drama, romance, and

Steve:

sometimes questionable fashion choices.

Steve:

Of this iconic 2007 series,

Leif:

bring your magnifying glasses because each week we'll be

Leif:

dissecting every juicy detail of the show, one episode at a time.

Leif:

We'll connect the dots, uncover those sneaky little Easter eggs,

Leif:

and of course, stir up some piping hot behind the scenes tee.

Leif:

And expect some iconic moments from Phantom too, because what's a

Leif:

deep dive without a little drama.

Steve:

Since we are all about inclusivity here at the Non-Judging Breakfast

Steve:

Pod, there is always a seat for you at the non-judging breakfast table.

Steve:

So go ahead and grab your mimosa or your cup of coffee or go ahead and roll

Steve:

up some of Chuck's special medicine.

Steve:

And let's get started.

Steve:

Steve, we are here for a special episode today.

Steve:

Yes, I am very excited and super bummed that I had to miss it.

Steve:

Yes.

Leif:

So right off the top, head in at the non judging breakfast table.

Leif:

Norman Buckley.

Leif:

The Norman Buckley.

Leif:

Yes.

Leif:

Director of the OC Gossip Girl.

Leif:

Pretty Little Liars and most recently Sweet Magnolias.

Leif:

And he's done over 140 episodes of television.

Steve:

Yes.

Leif:

Yes.

Leif:

We also had Caroline Lagerfelt, who plays Cece.

Leif:

Yeah.

Leif:

Who just happened to

Steve:

be having dinner with Norman Buckley.

Leif:

Yes.

Leif:

And that's kind of why you had to miss it because, so originally I

Leif:

reached out in like early July.

Leif:

He said he was, he's interested in doing the podcast, but he was finishing up

Leif:

filming season five of Sweet Magnolias.

Leif:

Yeah.

Leif:

And you know, so I told him, okay, I'll reach out, you know,

Leif:

the beginning of September.

Leif:

So I did, and he's like, well, I can do Monday.

Leif:

And I asked, then I asked you and you're like, oh, I'm gonna be away.

Leif:

Then, then like kind of in between that he was like, oh, I'm also

Leif:

having dinner with Caroline.

Leif:

Ara felt that, but, or that night and I could bring her along.

Leif:

I was like, sorry, Steve.

Leif:

Yeah.

Steve:

And, and, and as you know, I immediately was like, absolutely do this.

Steve:

Uh, and, and I, I'm bummed that I wasn't able to call in Robin and I were camping.

Steve:

So I, but I did get to listen to most of it.

Steve:

I have not heard this entire interview because apparently there is a, a

Steve:

spoiler in it that I, that you had said.

Steve:

Yeah.

Steve:

It was like 30 seconds cut out in the middle.

Steve:

Yeah.

Steve:

So I, I didn't even notice when, when I did my watch through.

Steve:

And yeah, it was a lot of fun to see you talk to them, get to ask them

Steve:

some cool questions and hear their takes on the people of Gossip Girl.

Leif:

And, uh, so.

Leif:

In addition to playing cc, Caroline has also, you know, done

Leif:

a million things on television and movies, a lot of genre stuff like

Leif:

X-Files, Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Leif:

Yeah.

Leif:

Um, she was also in the movie of Minority Report, but then she's also

Leif:

done a lot of work on and off Broadway.

Steve:

Yes.

Steve:

Yeah.

Steve:

Which is also impressive in its own right.

Steve:

Those double threat actors that can do Broadway, that can

Steve:

do live theater and do film.

Steve:

Two different beasts.

Steve:

Yeah.

Steve:

So it's impressive to be able to make that switch.

Leif:

And most recently she is a, uh, I guess recurring.

Leif:

I, I don't know if she, I know if she's considered main cast, but

Leif:

she's on, uh, sweet Magnolias.

Leif:

She's, yes.

Leif:

Uh, Joanna Garcia's mother.

Leif:

Yes.

Leif:

Yeah.

Leif:

Also is on Ca Grill.

Leif:

Yeah.

Steve:

Who, who is Joanna Garcia on?

Steve:

She played Brie Buckley.

Leif:

Oh, right, okay.

Leif:

Yes.

Leif:

And is now married to Nick Swisher.

Leif:

Yeah.

Leif:

But, so this, the start of the interview is a little bit awkward,

Leif:

so as people know, who know me, know I'm a perpetually early person.

Leif:

So we had the meeting scheduled for six 30.

Leif:

I showed up at 6 22 and Norma was already there, so I was

Leif:

a little embarrassed by that.

Leif:

And then he's like, okay, so.

Leif:

Caroline's gonna be here in about three minutes.

Leif:

I was like, so at first I was like, okay, let's, let's just hold off

Leif:

and I'm trying to chitchat and like, you know, I was just stall for time.

Leif:

And then he starts going into stuff, like he starts telling stories.

Leif:

I was like, uhoh better Start recording.

Leif:

Yes.

Leif:

And then about like eight minutes in, Caroline jumps in and, but, and, but

Leif:

her, she's on an iPhone and she's.

Leif:

She dropped it a couple times and so it was cutting out and so it was, it

Leif:

was a little bit of a mess to sync up, but I, I think at the end I got it.

Leif:

I got it working pretty well.

Leif:

So here it is coming at you right now.

Leif:

Welcome to the

Norman Buckley:

show.

Norman Buckley:

Thank you.

Norman Buckley:

Thanks for having me.

Leif:

So you have done quite a bit of, uh, TV directing and you started off with

Leif:

the oc, I believe that was your first job.

Leif:

Yes.

Norman Buckley:

Well, it's first job I directed on directing, first

Leif:

directing job.

Leif:

Yes.

Leif:

Yeah.

Norman Buckley:

I was an editor for many years before I started directing.

Norman Buckley:

And when I was asked to do the oc I said that I would be happy to do it if

Norman Buckley:

I could, uh, direct one of the episodes.

Norman Buckley:

And, uh, Josh and Stephanie were very, um, supportive of that, um, idea.

Norman Buckley:

And, um, I owe my directing career to them.

Leif:

Yeah.

Norman Buckley:

Which has then been very successful.

Norman Buckley:

So I'm grateful to them and I always.

Norman Buckley:

Credit them with, um, supporting me in that, uh, in that vision.

Leif:

Yeah.

Leif:

So you have worked with Fake Empire quite a bit.

Leif:

Did, um, do you find that it's different working with them compared

Leif:

to other showrunners because you have more of a relationship?

Leif:

Do they give you more creative freedom?

Norman Buckley:

I've had a great relationship with

Norman Buckley:

many different showrunners.

Norman Buckley:

I, I do believe that, uh, my relationship with Josh and Stephanie was very special.

Norman Buckley:

Because, um, it was right at the beginning of Josh's career and, um, I, uh, did the

Norman Buckley:

pi, I edited the pilot of the OC with them, and, uh, we grew to be very close.

Norman Buckley:

Stephanie.

Norman Buckley:

Um, I still, uh, see every time I go to LA and I, I haven't

Norman Buckley:

seen Josh in a while, but.

Norman Buckley:

I, I consider him to be a close friend and, um, they, they, they were extremely

Norman Buckley:

supportive to me during a period of time in my life when I was really

Norman Buckley:

trying to make a huge career leap and I was able to make it because of them.

Norman Buckley:

And I started on the OC and then I went to their two other

Norman Buckley:

shows, Chuck and Gossip Girl.

Norman Buckley:

And so I very quickly got.

Norman Buckley:

A number of directing credits and then moved in to, um, various

Norman Buckley:

other branches of the teen genre.

Norman Buckley:

Yeah.

Norman Buckley:

And then, uh, from there started moving into procedurals.

Norman Buckley:

And, you know, I've had a very successful career at this point.

Norman Buckley:

I've directed over 140 episodes of television.

Norman Buckley:

And, uh, that all stems back to 20 years ago, like working on the oc.

Norman Buckley:

So yeah, I, yes, I owe them a lot and I am very, I, I consider both of them

Norman Buckley:

very close friends, but in terms of, do I have a a, a shorthand with them?

Norman Buckley:

Yes.

Norman Buckley:

I have a shorthand with them based on.

Norman Buckley:

The fact that I was an editor for them first and mm-hmm.

Norman Buckley:

Really learned what they liked and learned, uh, how to, um, uh,

Norman Buckley:

direct the shows in such a way that I knew they'd be happy with it.

Norman Buckley:

So, I, I think I did six, I directed six episodes of the OC and probably.

Norman Buckley:

I don't know, I probably edited 30 some odd over the,

Norman Buckley:

over the course of the series.

Norman Buckley:

And then I directed 12 episodes of Gossip Girl, I think.

Norman Buckley:

Mm-hmm.

Norman Buckley:

And I think that's right.

Leif:

Double checking.

Leif:

Yes.

Leif:

12 episodes.

Norman Buckley:

Yeah.

Norman Buckley:

So did a number of episodes of Chuck.

Norman Buckley:

I did, did uh, episodes of the Carry Diaries.

Norman Buckley:

I did episodes of, of Dynasty and Hard of Dixie.

:

Mm-hmm.

Norman Buckley:

Uh, so yeah, I've worked with them quite a bit over the years.

Leif:

Well, taking a step back, what got you into film originally?

Norman Buckley:

Well, I was always fascinated with film as a, as a child,

Norman Buckley:

I always was interested in film and, um.

Norman Buckley:

When I was, uh, in college, I was majoring in history at the University

Norman Buckley:

of Texas at Arlington, and I was very lacking in a certain focus and direction.

Norman Buckley:

And my mother said, well, if you could do anything you

Norman Buckley:

wanted to do, what would you do?

Norman Buckley:

And I said, well, I'd go to film school.

Norman Buckley:

I, I'd work in film.

Norman Buckley:

And she said, well, you should go to film school then.

Norman Buckley:

And so she was really my, uh.

Norman Buckley:

Great encourager and my sister's an actress.

Norman Buckley:

My sister, uh, has been an actress from the time I was in junior high school.

Norman Buckley:

And so she, um.

Norman Buckley:

When I got out of film school, she was working on a film that was shot near my

Norman Buckley:

hometown in Texas and, uh, heard that the editor was looking for an assistant.

Norman Buckley:

So she told him that I just gotten outta film school and I could do the job.

Norman Buckley:

And that guy took me to New York with him and my career grew out of that.

Norman Buckley:

So I'm very grateful to my sister.

Norman Buckley:

I'm very grateful to my mother who just recently passed that.

Norman Buckley:

Yeah, I saw that's hard for

Leif:

your

Norman Buckley:

loss.

Norman Buckley:

Yeah, it's tough, but you know, it's, she had a good long life.

Norman Buckley:

There's, there wasn't much left on the table in terms of she did experience it.

Norman Buckley:

She was very vital and alive and with it right up until the very end.

Norman Buckley:

I know I got my mom a lot longer than most people get their moms,

Norman Buckley:

so I'm, I'm very grateful and yes.

Norman Buckley:

Yeah,

Leif:

the

Norman Buckley:

best

Leif:

we could all

Norman Buckley:

hope for.

Norman Buckley:

Yeah, there, there's, I have nothing but gratitude for her.

Norman Buckley:

It was a wonderful, wonderful lady, but I would say that she

Norman Buckley:

was one of the things that really inspired me and I, I worked in, uh.

Norman Buckley:

Editorial on various feature films.

Norman Buckley:

Uh, I was, um, an editor, um, on many feature films.

Norman Buckley:

Uh, and then about the year 2000, I started editing pilots and television and

Norman Buckley:

I directed, and I didn't direct, I edited.

Norman Buckley:

I edited, I mean, lemme take that back.

Norman Buckley:

I edited many pilots for Warner Brothers and so I had a lot of,

Norman Buckley:

uh, standing with the, uh, powers of the bee at Warner Brothers.

Norman Buckley:

And when I met Stephanie Savage, I met her on a show called Fast Lane and

Norman Buckley:

I expressed to her that I was really interested in directing and she said

Norman Buckley:

she would try to help make that happen.

Norman Buckley:

And she was the one that introduced me to Josh Schwartz.

Norman Buckley:

And um, yeah, the rest is history as they say.

Norman Buckley:

And there Carolyn.

Norman Buckley:

Hey.

Norman Buckley:

Welcome.

Norman Buckley:

Welcome.

Norman Buckley:

I'm on.

Norman Buckley:

How you doing?

Norman Buckley:

I'm the iPhone,

Caroline Lagerfelt:

so I'm holding it sort of at arms length.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I'm not quite sure how to do this.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

My computer's not working.

Leif:

That's fine.

Leif:

I was just, thank you so much for joining us.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Alright.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

So here we are.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I'm happy to see you guys.

Norman Buckley:

Yes, happy to see you.

Norman Buckley:

Nope there.

Norman Buckley:

Then we lost you.

Norman Buckley:

Oh, there she is.

Norman Buckley:

I'm

Caroline Lagerfelt:

not gonna touch it.

Leif:

Okay.

Leif:

Alright.

Leif:

Welcome to the show.

Leif:

Thank you.

Leif:

You, this is the Non-Judging Breakfast Pod.

Leif:

Uh, we are recapping Gossip Girl.

Leif:

We are currently started season four and of course you played ce.

Leif:

That's right.

Leif:

Welcome to the show.

Leif:

Thank you.

Leif:

And so we were just talking about Norman's original story.

Leif:

Uh, I don't know if you has anything else you want us to add on that.

Norman Buckley:

Well, I, I think I, I, I covered it pretty much.

Norman Buckley:

I do, I do wanna say like Carolyn and I never worked

Norman Buckley:

together on Gossip Pearl, never.

Norman Buckley:

We weren't, we never were in this, I, I didn't direct any of the episodes

Norman Buckley:

that she was in, but we became friends through Kelly Rutherford.

Leif:

Okay.

Norman Buckley:

When we started becoming, uh, dinner Companions and

Norman Buckley:

then the show that I'm currently on now.

Norman Buckley:

So we magnolias, we were looking for an actress to play the part

Norman Buckley:

of Paula, and I said, I know this actress that was on Girl, and I

Norman Buckley:

think she'd be really right for it.

Norman Buckley:

And yeah.

Norman Buckley:

So now we've done, um, uh, I just finished my 21st episode

Norman Buckley:

of, uh, directing SWE Magnolias.

Norman Buckley:

And, uh, so we've worked for six years together on SW Magnolias.

Norman Buckley:

So we share this history on Gossip Girl, we, we never worked together on gossip.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

We never did.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I mean, you were around as a producer, were you not?

Norman Buckley:

No, no, I wasn't a producer on Gossip Girl, but I did a

Norman Buckley:

lot of episodes, so I was there a lot.

Norman Buckley:

Just, which, just, uh, we just never landed on the same episodes.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I know.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And, and then there was that time, uh, maybe six or seven years ago when you were

Caroline Lagerfelt:

in Oregon or Washington State doing PLN

Norman Buckley:

Portland.

Norman Buckley:

Portland.

Norman Buckley:

I was doing the, uh, pretty little liar spinoff in Portland and, uh.

Norman Buckley:

Kelly Rutherford was one of the stars of that.

Norman Buckley:

And uh, Carolyn came to visit Kelly and we got to be friends and I took the

Caroline Lagerfelt:

train up there from LA so.

Norman Buckley:

Wow.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Yeah, that was an epic journey.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

It was like 36 hours and, um, but it was wonderful.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Trains

Leif:

could be fun though.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Three of us went out and had dinner together,

Caroline Lagerfelt:

and actually I'm going to be seeing Kelly when we wrap here on Saturday.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I'm going to New York and she's gonna be there, so I'm gonna see her.

Leif:

Oh, wow.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I'm really excited.

Leif:

So, yeah, when I was doing prep for this, I was kind of shocked

Leif:

to see that you were only in 10 episodes of Gossip Girl, you had

Leif:

such a big presence on the show.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

It's sort of surprising to me 'cause I was

Caroline Lagerfelt:

actually in very few episodes.

Leif:

Yeah.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Over How many did you say?

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Was it seven altogether?

Leif:

10.

Leif:

10. 10. Oh, I

Caroline Lagerfelt:

was in 10.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Okay.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

That, that's even more than I thought.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

But,

Leif:

but I'll out of 121.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Well, that's true.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

That's not that many.

Leif:

Um,

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I know, and it's extraordinary because to

Caroline Lagerfelt:

this day I, I think Gossip Girl is just gonna live on forever.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

It's become kind of a cult show.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And I think because, so when we did it, what, 15, 18 years ago, a lot of the

Caroline Lagerfelt:

little girls, the young ones, the eight, nine year olds weren't allowed to watch

Caroline Lagerfelt:

it, of course, 'cause it was too racy.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And now they've rediscovered it through all these different

Caroline Lagerfelt:

platforms that it's been showing on.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

So I'm always surprised I had somebody come up to me.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

On a subway station, Stockholm in May.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Some young girl, just so excited and she said, you're, you look just like

Caroline Lagerfelt:

my favorite actress on Gossip Girl.

:

And she

Caroline Lagerfelt:

pulled up a picture of me and I was like, it's me.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I'm her.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

So that was, it's really nice though that I, I'm just so glad that it

Caroline Lagerfelt:

keeps living and living and living.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Yeah.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

You know, I think it's wonderful.

Norman Buckley:

It was a really happy time in my life too.

Norman Buckley:

I. I look back on that period of time with a lot of affection.

Norman Buckley:

I think people have asked me, you know, what's your favorite show?

Norman Buckley:

And I said, well, you know, I don't have a favorite show.

Norman Buckley:

I'm, I'm my favorite is whatever I'm working on.

Norman Buckley:

But when I really think back on my life, that period, those years

Norman Buckley:

that I worked on Gaza Girl, were extraordinarily happy because I was.

Norman Buckley:

Um, in New York for several months.

Norman Buckley:

Every year I got to be very close with some of the cast,

Norman Buckley:

and I just found it to be a joy.

Norman Buckley:

There was never an episode that I felt like, oh boy, this is a drudge.

Norman Buckley:

It was a really joyful experience for me.

Norman Buckley:

I, I have nothing bad to say about that period of time.

Norman Buckley:

At all, you know, just, you know, I hear these stories about Gossip Girl,

Norman Buckley:

how the, there were problems on the set or this or that, and I'm like,

Norman Buckley:

no, that's, that's just not true.

Norman Buckley:

It's just, you know, there's, there's absolutely no, no truth to any of that.

Norman Buckley:

It was just a delightful experience and everyone was

Norman Buckley:

delightful and I had a great time.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Good.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Yeah, I did too.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I remember when they, um, ca my agent called me.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I was, I think I was in LA at the time.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

In fact, I know I was.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And he said, look, the producers want to meet with you for this one part.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And I, and I said, well, they're not gonna fly me in.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

He goes, no, you're gonna have to fly in yourself.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And I said, oh, you know, spend that money to fly in.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And you know, how many other people are they looking?

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And this is why I love Mike Ken.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I've been with him for like 30 years.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

He was like, if you fly in, you'll get it.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Which doesn't always happen.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

But I flew in and I booked it, and it, it meant so much to me.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

It was so exciting.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I, I made such good friends with the cast, even though I was sort

Caroline Lagerfelt:

of, as you said, you know, in 10 episodes it just popped in and out.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Mm-hmm.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I love the designer, the clothes, I mean, there was a whole feeling about it that

Caroline Lagerfelt:

was just completely new and different.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And also, I think it was, um, you know, the first time that everything was online,

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I remember Kelly and I doing a live, what the hell was it called back in the day?

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Twitter something.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Twitter group or something.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

So we were watching it with the fans

Leif:

Live Tweeting

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Live.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Thank you.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Yeah.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

We were, Kelly and I were sitting together and we'd live tweet and they'd

Caroline Lagerfelt:

ask us about our clothes or about this, that, or the other, and we'd be doing

Caroline Lagerfelt:

this little live tweets and it was very new and very exciting at that time.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

From TikTok, Instagram streaming, all the things.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

The young kids on this show, do you know?

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And

Leif:

this actually leads me into my, one of my questions.

Leif:

So the family resemblance is on the show.

Leif:

The ca with the casting was really great.

Leif:

And like, especially with you Kelly and Blake, it's like, it

Leif:

looked like you could be family.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

There's a classic picture of us that was taken.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Yeah.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And this was before Instagram and everything.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I still, I have it.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I might repost it.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

It's a classic picture of the three of us.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I think just somebody took it on one of their cameras,

Caroline Lagerfelt:

and you're absolutely right.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

It was amazing.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Of course, I'm thrilled that people thought I would collect Blake Kelly.

:

I'm not gonna

Caroline Lagerfelt:

deny that Great family was.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I think they upped it a little bit, bettered it, but they,

Caroline Lagerfelt:

yeah, it was a, it was amazing.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

It was a very believable family.

Leif:

So the, the question was, is did they Cub reach out to

Leif:

you or was it an open casting?

Leif:

Caroline Lagerfelt: No, they, I think they.

Leif:

I don't know.

Leif:

I think maybe my agent had submitted me for it.

Leif:

Okay.

Leif:

I sort of had a bit of a genre for quite a while around that age where I

Leif:

played rich old bitches and a lot of rich women and I, I think he might have

Leif:

submitted me and then they called me in.

Leif:

But the, when I flew in, it was sort of, yeah, they really wanted to see me for it.

Leif:

So I was absolutely overjoyed when I booked it.

Leif:

And not a cliche ritual lady.

Leif:

This was a fun one to play.

Leif:

Yes.

Leif:

She had a presence.

Leif:

Yes

Caroline Lagerfelt:

ma'am.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Sir,

Leif:

this question's for ez.

Leif:

So you made your debut with the, uh, 1 0 6, the Handmaid's Tale, which

Leif:

Newsweek did rank as one of the best episodes of 2007 of all television.

Leif:

And was that your favorite episode or did you have a, a different one that,

Norman Buckley:

well, it definitely is one of my favorite episodes.

Norman Buckley:

It was the first one I did, which was, um, show was just breaking at that time.

Norman Buckley:

It was just coming on the air, like six episodes in the show was just

Norman Buckley:

starting to air, and so there was an enormous excitement around it, and

Norman Buckley:

it was a beautiful episode to direct.

Norman Buckley:

I had this big masquerade ball and I had all these ideas for it that they really

Norman Buckley:

embraced, and I had a great time on that.

Norman Buckley:

It was written by Jessica Queller, who also wrote, uh, another episode

Norman Buckley:

that I did on the series, which I would say is my favorite, which was,

Norman Buckley:

uh, I think it was episode two 18,

Norman Buckley:

I think.

Norman Buckley:

I think it was.

Norman Buckley:

It was, um,

Leif:

was it the one to play with, uh, the Age of Innocence?

Norman Buckley:

Yes.

Leif:

Yes.

Leif:

That is a great episode.

Norman Buckley:

Yes.

Norman Buckley:

That, that I think is my favorite, uh, for many reasons.

Norman Buckley:

But, uh, my two favorite episodes I know were written by Jessica

Norman Buckley:

Queller and yeah, those were the two, they just, her sensibility

Norman Buckley:

and mine jived very, very much.

Norman Buckley:

And I liked it was the Age of dissonance is what it was

Leif:

called.

Leif:

The age of, yeah.

Leif:

Age of dissonance.

Leif:

Yes.

Leif:

Age of

Norman Buckley:

dissonance.

Norman Buckley:

And, um, the, um, the play of the Age of Innocence mm-hmm.

Norman Buckley:

That they were performing in that, in that episode was a lot of fun.

Norman Buckley:

What?

Norman Buckley:

And, um, one of my favorite stories about it is we were running very

Norman Buckley:

far behind the scene was in the play was this carriage ride.

Norman Buckley:

With Penn and Leighton, and, um, then they were supposed to come

Norman Buckley:

off stage after being in this, uh, scene and have an argument.

:

Mm-hmm.

Norman Buckley:

And we were running so far behind that.

Norman Buckley:

I said to Stephanie, I said, what if.

Norman Buckley:

They argued while they were on stage.

Norman Buckley:

What if while they're in the scene, they are whispering back and forth

Norman Buckley:

to each other and the argument happens as they're performing.

Norman Buckley:

And she, uh, embraced that idea and said, yeah, can you go over with the actors?

Norman Buckley:

And so I went to, um, both Penn and Leighton, I said, okay, let's move this

Norman Buckley:

line here and put this line, uh, here.

Norman Buckley:

And so it was, it, it was kind of a very spontaneous.

Norman Buckley:

Not improv, but almost like improv

:

in the

Norman Buckley:

sense of trying to construct this scene.

Norman Buckley:

And it, it ended up being a much better scene than it would've

Norman Buckley:

been had they, it's a great scene.

Norman Buckley:

Yes, it's very,

Leif:

very memorable scene.

Norman Buckley:

But also we got us back on schedule, which on

Norman Buckley:

a TV show, very important set.

Norman Buckley:

Yes, it's very important that you stay on schedule.

Norman Buckley:

And so, um, that episode just has a lot of, I feel a lot of nostalgia for it.

Norman Buckley:

I feel a lot of happy memories.

Norman Buckley:

It just, it was a lot of fun.

Norman Buckley:

It was a lot of

Leif:

fun.

Leif:

That scene.

Leif:

And also when they kind of go off script in the play is

Leif:

that scene is really good to

Norman Buckley:

where, where the end of the act where they all like, uh, yeah.

Norman Buckley:

Get mad at each other.

Norman Buckley:

Yes, it was, it was a lot of fun.

Norman Buckley:

There was, there were so many things in that, that I enjoyed and, and, um, I felt

Norman Buckley:

like the, um, the editor on that episode had been one of my assistants on the

Norman Buckley:

oc He edited that episode and I thought he did a beautiful job of editing it.

Norman Buckley:

So it had a, it had a whole feel about it that was, um,

Norman Buckley:

just very, very, um, uh, unique.

Norman Buckley:

And I, you know, I have a lot of happy memories about it.

Norman Buckley:

Great.

Norman Buckley:

That would probably be my favorite.

Norman Buckley:

Yeah.

Leif:

Kyle, do you have a favorite episode?

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Well, I, I mostly sort of think in terms of.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

When I was with a lot of the cast, 'cause very often my

Caroline Lagerfelt:

scenes were sort of quite small.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

They were with Kelly and with Blake and you know, I would miss

Caroline Lagerfelt:

sometimes seeing the whole cast.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I remember when we shot the white party out of this absolutely stunning mansion

Caroline Lagerfelt:

out in Long Island and I'm still friends with the owners of that beautiful house.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Oh

Leif:

nice.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And that was amazing.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I mean we were, it was glorious summer, this beautiful house and gardens.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

All of us dressed in white.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And it was truly, to me, that that's always ingrained in my memory, is one

Caroline Lagerfelt:

of the happiest shows that I ever shot.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Anyway, it was absolutely beautiful.

Leif:

I believe that was, uh, the season two premiere,

Caroline Lagerfelt:

correct?

Caroline Lagerfelt:

That's exactly what it was, yes.

Leif:

Mm-hmm.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And, um, I was, um, the only show I was wee bit

Caroline Lagerfelt:

disappointed in was my death scene.

Leif:

Yeah.

Leif:

That, that was a little, uh, weird, awkward, that scene.

Leif:

It, it

Caroline Lagerfelt:

was like, you know, they, they, they were very nice.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

They told me they were gonna kill me off, which is always nice to

Caroline Lagerfelt:

know ahead of time, you know?

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Mm-hmm.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And, um, but I thought it was sort of a blah scene and I, I, I, I wrote to them

Caroline Lagerfelt:

'cause I, I had, I wanted to sort of be asking for Martini as I was dying.

:

I just thought that would've like, you know, kept the

Caroline Lagerfelt:

spirit of Cece alive.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Yeah.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

You know, and it's bring me martini and Nope, they, they kiboshed it and

Caroline Lagerfelt:

it was all rather, I, I just, it just sort of felt like a rushed episode,

Caroline Lagerfelt:

but apart from that it was great.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I mean, you know, death scene never hurts.

Norman Buckley:

Uh, I wanna go back for a moment to my favorite episode,

Norman Buckley:

um, because, uh, one of the guests on that episode was also the, the,

Norman Buckley:

the theater critic Charles Isherwood.

Norman Buckley:

Okay.

Norman Buckley:

Yes.

Norman Buckley:

Was writing a real caveat at the time, and it, he was, um, it was so funny

Norman Buckley:

because he, he had only a few lines, but he could not remember them, and he just.

Norman Buckley:

Completely went up, completely forgot everything he was supposed to say.

Norman Buckley:

Uh, he wrote a story about it later, uh, in the New York Times.

Norman Buckley:

And let me see if I can find this.

Norman Buckley:

Oh, I'd love

Caroline Lagerfelt:

to read that.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

You have to send it to me.

Norman Buckley:

Oh, I will, I'll send it to you and I'll send it to you too, Levi.

Norman Buckley:

I, I, um.

Norman Buckley:

I just, um, I, I loved it because he said, it's not that I couldn't infuse

Norman Buckley:

the line with enough emotive substance to please a slosky, no, I'm afraid

Norman Buckley:

the words I had been relentlessly dri drilling for the past 24 hours

Norman Buckley:

to the cat, to the refrigerator, to empty elevators into the brisk air.

Norman Buckley:

Madison Square Park wouldn't come at all.

Norman Buckley:

The next few minutes have been erased from my memory.

Norman Buckley:

Presumably by an instinctive reaction akin to that, which makes victims of

Norman Buckley:

trauma unable to recall the event itself.

Norman Buckley:

But I would not be surprised.

Norman Buckley:

Told that instead of the dialogue from the script, I began spouting

Norman Buckley:

assorted lyrics from West Side Story Vesti Pit of Seventh Grade book report

Norman Buckley:

directions from the back of a shampoo bottle, or a recipe for ginger snaps.

Norman Buckley:

I'm pretty confident that at no point that the two dozen words of that fatal

Norman Buckley:

sentence emerge in the proper order.

Norman Buckley:

Like most of life site ordeals, junior high, oral surgery recessions,

Norman Buckley:

the occasional American presidency.

Norman Buckley:

My stint in the television spotlight eventually came to an end.

Norman Buckley:

I was even given a friendly sendoff in the form of warm applause by the casting

Norman Buckley:

crew, perhaps because they were relieved to get back to work with professionals.

Norman Buckley:

It was, it was so.

Norman Buckley:

Funny because he could not remember anything and he got so nervous and

Norman Buckley:

started to sweat and Blake was so sweet.

Norman Buckley:

She took his hand and just held his hand and I just basically fed the lines to him.

Norman Buckley:

I said, okay, now say this line.

Norman Buckley:

Now say this line.

Norman Buckley:

Now say this line.

Norman Buckley:

It was so funny.

Norman Buckley:

I'll send you both the, uh, oh, I'd love your feed I that he wrote,

Norman Buckley:

because it, it really was delightful.

Norman Buckley:

But that's another reason that episode really sticks in my mind

Norman Buckley:

because that was such a funny event.

Leif:

Yeah, there's a lot of jokes within the fandom about like, even if you don't

Leif:

recognize the cameos from Gossip Girl, you can always tell it's the cameo.

Leif:

Yeah, yeah,

Norman Buckley:

yeah.

Norman Buckley:

Because they're not actors is Exactly, yeah.

Norman Buckley:

Yeah.

Norman Buckley:

I had some good.

Norman Buckley:

I had, oh, who did I have?

Norman Buckley:

Oh God, what is her name?

Norman Buckley:

I'm thinking of the designer and I can't, I'm blanking

Norman Buckley:

totally on her name right now.

Norman Buckley:

She designer college episode.

Norman Buckley:

Oh, the designer who did the rap dresses.

Norman Buckley:

What is Diane

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Von Furstenberg?

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Yes.

Norman Buckley:

Diane von Furstenberg.

Norman Buckley:

That's the, she was in one of my episodes and she was, I think we

Leif:

just actually did that episode.

Norman Buckley:

She was delightful.

Norman Buckley:

She was wonderful, wonderful to work with.

Norman Buckley:

And Amy.

Norman Buckley:

Um, I'm trying to think who else I had that were, were big cameos.

Norman Buckley:

Oh, well it's been a while.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

We have great actors on that show.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Sebastian Stan.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I mean, yep.

Norman Buckley:

Yeah, Sebastian Stan was great and, um, wonderful.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And what's that wonderful guy who played, was it Layton's

Caroline Lagerfelt:

father, that fantastic New York actor?

Caroline Lagerfelt:

The shorter,

Norman Buckley:

oh, um, John, she played Layton's father.

Leif:

Yeah, yeah.

Norman Buckley:

Yes.

Norman Buckley:

Margaret Collin played her mother, right?

Norman Buckley:

Yes.

Norman Buckley:

And uh, uh, here's a funny story.

Norman Buckley:

Uh, I was.

Norman Buckley:

To direct an episode of with Margaret Collins.

Norman Buckley:

She was supposed to be in my episode, and then for some reason she couldn't do it.

Norman Buckley:

She had some type of conflict.

Norman Buckley:

And so, uh, ROA up until that point had only been a character who

Norman Buckley:

would do a, a line here and there.

Norman Buckley:

She, she'd been in a couple of my episodes, but she,

Norman Buckley:

she'd never had a big part.

Norman Buckley:

But there was this one episode, I, I can't remember which one it is.

Norman Buckley:

Margaret wasn't available to play Leighton's mother.

Norman Buckley:

And so I was in a conversation with, uh, one of the writers

Norman Buckley:

and he said, well, I think we'll just give those lines to Darda.

Norman Buckley:

And I said, well, if you're gonna do that, then let's make it like she's

Norman Buckley:

been with the family for many years and that she's basically like a second

Norman Buckley:

mother to her by virtue of the, I say, because these, a lot of these women who

Norman Buckley:

work in these, these roles and these wealthy families, you know, they're with.

Norman Buckley:

The family for years and years and mm-hmm.

Norman Buckley:

Like a part of the family.

Norman Buckley:

And so that happened in my episode.

Norman Buckley:

And, uh, uh, Susanna, who played the rota was always very grateful to me.

Norman Buckley:

Another fan favorite because she felt like that I, um, really.

Norman Buckley:

Help facilitate the, the, the nature of her part kind of expanding?

Norman Buckley:

I don't, I don't think that's entirely true.

Norman Buckley:

I think that the writers were already moving in that direction, but I

Norman Buckley:

definitely, I definitely remember having the conversation with the writer of

Norman Buckley:

that episode and saying like, but you gotta, you gotta give it more of a, of

Norman Buckley:

a feeling like she's, she's been there for a, it just can't just be information,

Norman Buckley:

it's gotta feel like it's a character.

Norman Buckley:

It's gotta feel like it's a character that, um, has been with

Norman Buckley:

the family for many, many years.

Norman Buckley:

And, uh, so I was delighted to see ADA's part just expand exponentially

Norman Buckley:

over the run of the show.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Well, it was wonderful because she became, you know, like a huge

Caroline Lagerfelt:

fan favorite, and we all looked forward to her character appearing on screen.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

She had wonderful, pithy things to say.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

She had a combination of love and impatience, which was

Caroline Lagerfelt:

just absolutely delightful.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Yeah.

Norman Buckley:

And she is a delightful actress to work with as well.

Norman Buckley:

Yeah, she's one of the

Caroline Lagerfelt:

other ones I keep in touch with.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

'cause she and I both theater.

Norman Buckley:

Yeah, me too.

Norman Buckley:

Yeah.

Norman Buckley:

Okay.

Norman Buckley:

Yeah.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And, uh, she's,

Norman Buckley:

no, she's one of the ones I stay in touch with.

Norman Buckley:

I, I stay in touch with a good part of the cast, but, um,

Norman Buckley:

definitely some more than others.

Norman Buckley:

Some I'm deeply close to and then others I have casual acquaintances with.

Norman Buckley:

But, um, I, I stay in touch really.

Norman Buckley:

A good part of the cast.

Leif:

Well,

Norman Buckley:

any

Leif:

fun stories from the set?

Leif:

From either of you?

Norman Buckley:

Well, I directed the first season finale, which was

Leif:

much idea about nothing.

Norman Buckley:

Yeah.

Norman Buckley:

Which was, um, Kelly's, I can't even remember Kelly's character's name.

Norman Buckley:

What was Lily?

Norman Buckley:

Lily?

Norman Buckley:

Lily.

Norman Buckley:

Lily Lily's marriage to Barb Bass.

:

Mm-hmm.

Norman Buckley:

Anyway, um, I was directing the, uh,

Norman Buckley:

wedding of Lily to Barb Bass.

Norman Buckley:

And the wedding reception was to be on this, uh, one day with the entire cast.

Norman Buckley:

Um, for some reason I never do this, but for some reason I, I called

Norman Buckley:

everybody in to the, the ballroom and I said, I just wanna talk everybody

Norman Buckley:

through the, the day so that you understand what we're shooting, how

Norman Buckley:

we're shooting, why we're shooting.

Norman Buckley:

So nobody asked me when do I get to go home?

Norman Buckley:

Just, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna like tell you what the whole day's gonna be.

Norman Buckley:

Put everybody in their place, talked through all the camera placements

Norman Buckley:

of, um, uh, the entire day.

Norman Buckley:

And then, um, uh, we started shooting.

Norman Buckley:

And then at lunch I was in a hurry to get to lunch because I had stopped

Norman Buckley:

to have a conversation with the assistant director about some things.

Norman Buckley:

And I was running and I tripped on a marble staircase and I went.

Norman Buckley:

Straightforward and completely shattered my nose.

Norman Buckley:

And so the, the nose I now, now have is not the nose I was born

Norman Buckley:

with because they, uh, completely, uh, completely shattered it.

Norman Buckley:

So they had to take me to the, um.

Norman Buckley:

Er, uh, to sew it up.

Norman Buckley:

But because of the fact that I'd gone over the entire day beforehand,

Norman Buckley:

they just carried on shooting Joe Lal, I know, um, the producer on set.

Norman Buckley:

He mm-hmm.

Norman Buckley:

Stepped up and directed the rest of the, um, that day's shooting.

Norman Buckley:

And I came back with my nose, uh, sewed up thinking that I

Norman Buckley:

could carry on with the day.

Norman Buckley:

But then they had put me on a really heavy antibiotic.

Norman Buckley:

And I fainted.

Norman Buckley:

And so I had to go home and, uh, uh, I then they, they, they, um,

Norman Buckley:

sent me for a CAT scan the next day and everything was fine.

Norman Buckley:

So I continued on with the episode on Vicodin because I was so, uh,

Norman Buckley:

in so much pain, but I had my nose, um, uh, sewn up enough so

Norman Buckley:

that I could complete the episode.

Norman Buckley:

And then I stayed in New York for two weeks, two additional weeks while they

Norman Buckley:

basically gave me a nose shot, uh, because I couldn't fly home because my nose was So

Caroline Lagerfelt:

you really smashed it

Norman Buckley:

there.

Norman Buckley:

I really did.

Norman Buckley:

I a war story.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

It is a war story.

Norman Buckley:

That is, um, that is my, um.

Norman Buckley:

That is my best, uh, story for you.

Norman Buckley:

Well,

Leif:

thank you for sacrificing your body for so we can watch

Leif:

the show for good, for good

Caroline Lagerfelt:

story.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I'll tell you one, one we're talking about, I was thinking when you guys

Caroline Lagerfelt:

were talking about favorite shows.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I'll tell you one of my favorite shows to watch because there's a snippet of it that

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I think I've posted probably outta the last 10 Thanksgivings I've posted about

Caroline Lagerfelt:

every other year, and I'll probably post it this year is the Thanksgiving scene.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Okay.

Leif:

Yeah,

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I mean, I posted other people post it.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

It's all over Instagram, around Thanksgiving and everybody still

Caroline Lagerfelt:

gets such a kick outta that episode.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And you know, as the table just gets less and less people and more

Caroline Lagerfelt:

people get upset and just get up and storm off, you know, but that was,

Caroline Lagerfelt:

um, I always enjoy watching that.

Leif:

The timing and the beats and everything on that scene was,

Leif:

was great, was everything was.

Leif:

It's the, it worked so well.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Yeah, it was really, really, it.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

It was a lot of fun and, and again, it was one of those shows where

Caroline Lagerfelt:

everybody was on set, all the kids and everything, so it was always enjoyable

Caroline Lagerfelt:

to shoot that, you know, you got, you got to catch up with everybody.

Leif:

Was it a lot of takes or did you, was it or they, did you like

Leif:

break up when he was shooting it?

Leif:

I

Caroline Lagerfelt:

think it was pretty much broken up.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I don't remember it taking it, you know, I can't remember who directed that episode.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Do you remember Norman?

Norman Buckley:

No, I don't remember.

Norman Buckley:

Um, but it was

Caroline Lagerfelt:

cut together.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

It was edited together so well I thought.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And um, of course Matthew, who marches to his own drummer always

Norman Buckley:

definitely

Caroline Lagerfelt:

was telling his long, long, long funny story.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Oh God, no, that,

Norman Buckley:

do you still stay in touch with him?

Norman Buckley:

I know you guys were close with him.

Norman Buckley:

I did

Caroline Lagerfelt:

actually.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I saw him very, very recently.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

He's friends with a, a Swedish friend of mine, and I just suddenly got a message

Caroline Lagerfelt:

that he was going to, because I go to the Swedish church in New York on Madison

Caroline Lagerfelt:

and, uh, 48th Street and fifth Avenue there, and I suddenly got a message from

Caroline Lagerfelt:

this Swedish friend of mine, oh, I'm bringing Matt to church this Sunday.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And I said, well, you do know that it, the service is all in Swedish.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

It's.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I don't think he speaks it, but he was fine.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

He sat, he came there, sat there.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

We, you know, it was so nice to see him.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And then of course, as always in Swedish church afterwards, there's

Caroline Lagerfelt:

coffee and cinnamon buns and cardamom, bums and cake and cookies.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I mean, classic as important, all Mr is going,

Norman Buckley:

no, by the way, Carolyn, I had a piece of that

Norman Buckley:

cake that you had on the set today.

Norman Buckley:

Oh

Caroline Lagerfelt:

you, I was so upset.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

'cause I thought you weren't gonna be there.

Norman Buckley:

No, no, I had a piece.

Norman Buckley:

I, uh,

Caroline Lagerfelt:

it's fun.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Uh,

Norman Buckley:

Carolyn bought a, uh, cake for the CR

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Yeah.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Today.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Yeah.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

It's called Princess Cake, and it's a very sweet, famous cake.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

She lives an hour outside Atlanta, so I drove there in the morning to pick it

Caroline Lagerfelt:

up, and I drove back and dropped it off.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I wanted to have something Swedish with a cast and crew to

Caroline Lagerfelt:

sort of show my appreciation.

Norman Buckley:

We're wrapping up our fifth season here in Atlanta.

Norman Buckley:

So there's just a few more days of, of, uh, this season and so

Caroline Lagerfelt:

fifth season, but sixth year, that's what I

Caroline Lagerfelt:

always have to remind myself.

Norman Buckley:

Crazy, isn't it?

Norman Buckley:

Yeah.

Norman Buckley:

Six

Caroline Lagerfelt:

years ago you called me when I was in Sweden.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Yes.

Leif:

Yes.

Leif:

The director of the Thanksgiving episode was Mark Pisarski.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Who was it?

Leif:

Pki.

Leif:

Yeah.

Leif:

Mark Pisarski.

Norman Buckley:

Who directed the pilot.

Leif:

Yeah, he's the pilot.

Leif:

The pilot King.

Leif:

Right.

Leif:

He does a lot of pilots.

Leif:

It's

Caroline Lagerfelt:

so nice you guys have your computers.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

You can look up all the stuff that we can't remember.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

That's wonderful.

Leif:

Well, anything else you guys wanna add on gossip before

Leif:

we move over to speak Magnolias?

Leif:

No,

Norman Buckley:

I think I've covered my part, an episode, so

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I leave that up to Norman if yes, more,

Norman Buckley:

unless, unless you have some, uh, specific questions about it.

Norman Buckley:

I, uh, I'll say this for the record.

Norman Buckley:

I love Blake Lively.

Norman Buckley:

I think she's a wonderful person.

Norman Buckley:

I think that, uh, I, I, I don't really like her when anybody

Norman Buckley:

says anything bad about her.

Norman Buckley:

Because I think she is, um, delightful and, uh, as, and, and I feel that

Norman Buckley:

way about every person in the cast.

Norman Buckley:

I think everybody in this cast was just, uh, a dream to work with.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Lovely.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And I couldn't have asked for a better

Norman Buckley:

Yeah, better.

Norman Buckley:

We

Leif:

try to stay away from that.

Leif:

Ugly.

Leif:

This, it's been going on.

Leif:

I'm

Norman Buckley:

just telling you.

Norman Buckley:

All I'm saying is I think she's just a wonderful person and I, and

Norman Buckley:

I that's to hear and I love her.

Norman Buckley:

Uh, love.

Norman Buckley:

I love everybody in this cast.

Norman Buckley:

I love everybody in this cast.

Norman Buckley:

This was, this was a really fun show to work on because there

Norman Buckley:

was nobody that I didn't like.

Norman Buckley:

And that's a good segue to with Magnolias because that's another show and there is

Norman Buckley:

nobody that I don't enjoy working with.

Norman Buckley:

Yeah.

Norman Buckley:

It's a delightful show to work on from top to bottom.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Well, I think, you know, you're talking about two

Caroline Lagerfelt:

major shows that both went for years, and I think one of the reasons.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

That you keep saying, I loved everybody.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I got along with everybody.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

There's nobody I don't like working with.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

It's because you are such an amazing person to work for and with really,

Caroline Lagerfelt:

and you make us feel like we're part of, we're, we're partners almost.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And um, you know, the kindest man I've ever met in my life.

Norman Buckley:

Yes.

Norman Buckley:

Sweet to save and

Caroline Lagerfelt:

you don't waste time.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And we have a lot of wonderful directors on the show.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

We have young directors, we have new directors.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

We've had some older directors.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

But every time I see a, an episode that says Norman directing,

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I'm like, that's gonna go fine.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Just never worry about a thing.

Leif:

So on this show, I believe Doby, you do have more of a creative side on this

Leif:

because you are an executive producer.

Leif:

I'm a co-executive

Norman Buckley:

producer.

Norman Buckley:

I've been with it since the beginning.

Norman Buckley:

I directed the.

Norman Buckley:

It wasn't really a pilot because we did 10 episodes all at once, and so it was,

Norman Buckley:

we had a, we had a 10 episode order, um, uh, but I directed the first one

Norman Buckley:

and I directed six in the first season.

Norman Buckley:

I directed four in the subsequent three seasons, and then I've

Norman Buckley:

directed three episodes this season, so a total of, uh, 21.

Norman Buckley:

And yeah, I've been very involved in the, um, the design of it, the, the

Norman Buckley:

visual design of it, and, um, work with a showrunner named Cheryl Anderson.

Norman Buckley:

And Matt Drake and Dan Paulson are the executive producers, and

Norman Buckley:

it's a lovely show to work on.

Norman Buckley:

I've really, really enjoyed the, um, collaboration with everyone

Norman Buckley:

in the, the cast is just stellar.

Norman Buckley:

Uh, I actually worked, uh, with Joe Joanna Garcia Swisher.

Norman Buckley:

Uh, I'd worked with her on a show.

Norman Buckley:

That, uh, actually Josh and Stephanie had recommended me for called Privileged.

Norman Buckley:

Caroline Lagerfelt: Oh, I didn't know that.

Norman Buckley:

Yeah.

Norman Buckley:

Many years ago.

Norman Buckley:

I did one episode of that.

Norman Buckley:

And then Joe actually did several episodes of Gossip Girl as well.

Norman Buckley:

Yeah.

Leif:

Did did you direct any of her episodes?

Norman Buckley:

I did.

Norman Buckley:

I directed one of her episodes.

Norman Buckley:

I can't remember which one.

Norman Buckley:

I directed one of her episodes.

Norman Buckley:

And, um, she and I had, uh, remained friends and then, um, I knew that

Norman Buckley:

this part would be right for her.

Norman Buckley:

And, um.

Norman Buckley:

She's a wonderful person, as is Brooke Elliott and Heather Headley,

Norman Buckley:

the other stars of the show.

Norman Buckley:

And then also Jamie Lynn Spears, who's a delight.

Norman Buckley:

Everybody on the show is wonderful.

Norman Buckley:

Um, I don't, uh, have anything bad to report about any of my collaborators.

Norman Buckley:

It's been, it's been a real joy and, uh, I, I do think that it's hard to

Norman Buckley:

believe that it's been six years and it's different because I think one of your

Norman Buckley:

questions that you said you wanted to ask is how is it different working on a.

Norman Buckley:

Long show versus a short order.

Leif:

Yeah.

Norman Buckley:

It's different because we're in and out really

Norman Buckley:

quickly, whereas, um, well, and

Leif:

it's, and yeah, as opposed to the old styles, everything's written

Leif:

before you even start shooting typically now when That's correct.

Leif:

Whereas in the old network days, you would be, you only like two or threes episode.

Leif:

Yeah.

Leif:

Yeah.

Norman Buckley:

It was chasing your talent and Yeah.

Norman Buckley:

And you know, that's, that's something interesting because I do feel like that.

Norman Buckley:

Particularly as you get into those later episodes of a 22 episode

Norman Buckley:

order, they're writing really fast.

Norman Buckley:

And so sometimes there's episodes that are my less favored

Norman Buckley:

episodes of any given show.

Norman Buckley:

Based upon, you know, how quickly it was written.

Norman Buckley:

But, um, yeah, we we're, um, we've, now we're about to complete

Norman Buckley:

50 episodes of Sweet Magnos.

Norman Buckley:

It's hard to believe, isn't it Carolyn?

Norman Buckley:

Like,

Leif:

unbelievable.

Norman Buckley:

Yeah.

Norman Buckley:

Been so quickly.

Norman Buckley:

I

Leif:

know.

Leif:

So, c you play Paula, what can you say are, are, she was once, once again a

Leif:

grandmother slash mother character, right?

Leif:

Uh, but can you say, what are the similarities of the differences?

Leif:

Between her and Cece?

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Well, I think the similarities are that they are both

Caroline Lagerfelt:

in their own rights, strong women.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I think she's be, I think, uh, that Paula is more of a free spirit.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I, I've, I sort of imagined her as having traveled around Europe a lot

Caroline Lagerfelt:

when she was younger and painting, and that's why I wear all these little

Caroline Lagerfelt:

rings on the show and everything.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Um, more of a free spirit.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Uh, yeah, definitely not such a, yeah.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

A cutting wit as maybe CC had

:

at all.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Or loving.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I mean, my, my kids who are so used to me playing rather evil, women both on camera

Caroline Lagerfelt:

and on stage, were incredibly impressed.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And they were like, mom, you are so good in this.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Look how nice you are.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Unfortunately, they recognized me more with my shark tongue and my wit than

Caroline Lagerfelt:

they did in this warm, cuddly mother.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

But they still love me and, um, they love the show too.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

So, um.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Yeah, I, I don't see any, I think the similarities are, as with

Caroline Lagerfelt:

all mothers, you fight for what you think your kids should do.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Right?

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And Cece had her own way, which was very sort of dictatorial and didactic.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And you know, this mother is a little smoother, a little gentler.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And, um, she also has, I think, a, you know, a very smart daughter.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

You know, Joanna plays a very warm, intelligent woman, so it's not somebody

Caroline Lagerfelt:

that you have to say, Hey, don't do that.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

You know, somebody that you can more talk things through with.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And, um, I love my scenes with Joe.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I usually get at least one scene with her where we talk more intimately about maybe.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Her relationship or her father.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

That was my husband and I long for those scenes.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

We had a little porch scene this episode, this season, which made me so happy.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Directed by Brooke Elliot.

Norman Buckley:

Yeah.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I thought she did a wonderful job as a director.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I say

Norman Buckley:

It's a beautiful scene.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Yeah.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And she was so happy with it.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And, um, so I always look forward to like having one scene with Joe where I can.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Just the two of us talking.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Mother and daughter.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I don't have a daughter.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I have two sons, wild sons.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Well, one's very wild.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And um, so it, it's fun sort of living through.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And now I have a granddaughter, so I am actually a, finally a

Caroline Lagerfelt:

grandmother and I, which I love.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And so I would say they both fight for their children in the way that

Caroline Lagerfelt:

they have been brought up to do one, a little nicer than the other.

Leif:

Anything else, uh, you guys either of you wanna add?

Leif:

That's all the prepared questions I had.

Norman Buckley:

Well, it's nice of you to want to talk to us and, uh, I think that,

Norman Buckley:

uh, you know, we're, um, delighted to kinda revisit, uh, some of our past work.

Norman Buckley:

I think I can speak for Carolyn saying that it just so happened like Carolyn

Norman Buckley:

and I are having dinner tonight.

:

Mm-hmm.

:

And

Norman Buckley:

I said, Hey, you know, I'm, I said I'd do this podcast.

Norman Buckley:

You wanna do it with me?

Norman Buckley:

And, uh, it just worked out.

Norman Buckley:

So I'm happy it worked out and, uh, uh, yeah, we just,

Leif:

well, I thank you both for joining me.

Leif:

It, it was a great pleasure to have you on and.

Leif:

Is there anything either of you wanna plug or recommend?

Norman Buckley:

Well, I, uh, have been doing, uh, a, um, show, uh,

Norman Buckley:

I did a show earlier this spring.

Norman Buckley:

Called the Chicken Sisters, which is for Hallmark.

Norman Buckley:

And I have to say, I just watched my episodes that my two episodes

Norman Buckley:

were on like a, uh, the, well, it's a couple of weeks ago now, but they

Norman Buckley:

were on one week after another.

Norman Buckley:

And I was pretty delighted with how they turned out.

Norman Buckley:

I was, I was like, this is a really fun show.

Norman Buckley:

It's another show about women in the South.

Norman Buckley:

It's funny, you know, because, um, I remember one time I was on a panel where.

Norman Buckley:

Where, um, the, one of the panelists was saying, well, I think women

Norman Buckley:

should be directing shows about women.

Norman Buckley:

And I said, well, if that's the case then I'm outta work because I said

Norman Buckley:

that's, those would be most of the shows that I work on are shows that

Norman Buckley:

are, that are based around women.

Norman Buckley:

And, uh, but yeah, I just did this show called The Chicken Sisters and, um, where

Leif:

could people watch that?

Norman Buckley:

That's on Hallmark.

Leif:

Okay.

Leif:

And

Norman Buckley:

then I am about to go up to, uh, Canada.

Norman Buckley:

To work on a, a new show for Netflix that is in the tea genre.

Norman Buckley:

So it's kind of returning to my tea genre roots.

Norman Buckley:

And so, uh, when I know, uh, a little bit more about what the release plans

Norman Buckley:

are for that, it, it will be on Netflix.

Norman Buckley:

But when I know a little bit more about that and I hesitate to talk too much about

Norman Buckley:

it before I wanna get you in trouble,

Leif:

but, uh, we will keep our eyes out for it.

Norman Buckley:

Yeah.

Norman Buckley:

But it's, um.

Norman Buckley:

It looks like it's gonna be a lot of fun.

Norman Buckley:

The, the, the pilot script was really wonderful and, and, um, I'll

Norman Buckley:

be doing the third episode of their first season, so that'll be fun.

Norman Buckley:

So that's kinda what I have to plug at the moment.

Norman Buckley:

Carolyn and I are gonna find something to do together.

Norman Buckley:

We're gonna like, uh, I know

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I've told him to be his reserve grandmother.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I just give back.

Norman Buckley:

We're gonna find Southern, we're gonna find a a,

Norman Buckley:

a feature or, or, uh, or, or, uh,

Norman Buckley:

a CEO or, or something.

Leif:

Yeah.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Yeah.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

I'm going to New York to do a movie for a month and um, now I'll be

Caroline Lagerfelt:

waiting for a call from Vancouver.

Norman Buckley:

Yeah.

Norman Buckley:

Well, thank you for asking us, Lisa.

Norman Buckley:

Thank you so much for letting me join you.

Norman Buckley:

Yes, thank you.

Norman Buckley:

I, I really enjoyed this.

Norman Buckley:

Yes.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

And I'm gonna go watch the whole of Gossip Girl again.

Leif:

Okay.

Leif:

All right.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Bye-bye.

Caroline Lagerfelt:

Thank you.

Leif:

Yep.

Leif:

Bye-bye.

Leif:

We are back and thank you for listening.

Leif:

That was quick.

Leif:

Yes.

Leif:

Once again, thank you very much to Norman Buckley and Carolyn

Leif:

Lager Puff for joining the podcast

Steve:

and taking the time outta your night to, to just sit and

Steve:

hang out and, and talk to us.

Steve:

Thank you so much.

Steve:

We cannot tell you how much we appreciate it, and we really hope about

Leif:

one or both of you will come back to recap an episode at some point.

Steve:

Yes, we would love that.

Steve:

It would be a lot of fun and I will make sure to be there.

Leif:

Well.

Leif:

That is it for the episode.

Leif:

So if you would like to follow us on social media, you can find us

Leif:

on Instagram, TikTok and Threads at Non-Judging Breakfast Pod, and you

Leif:

can find links to our subreddit, our Discord server, and our Patreon on our

Leif:

website Non-Judging Breakfast Pod dot.

Steve:

And if you would like to get in touch with us, we would love to hear

Steve:

what you have to say and maybe even read what you have to say here on the podcast.

Steve:

You can get in touch with us by sending us an email at Non-Judging

Steve:

Breakfast pod@gmail.com.

Steve:

You can also go ahead and hit that like.

Steve:

Follow or subscribe button.

Steve:

And while you're at it, leave a comment on Spotify or Apple Podcasts 'cause

Steve:

that really helps boost our visibility.

Steve:

And why don't you go ahead and tell your friends what you're listening to

Steve:

get, give them these great insights from Norman Buckley and from uh, Caroline.

Steve:

And please, uh, tell your friends that you're listening to make us the water

Steve:

cooler talk at your work this week.

Leif:

And we'll be back next week this time for real, to talk about Season

Leif:

four, episode three, the undergraduates.

Leif:

Until next time, you know you love us, XOXO.

:

Every time you walk away, run away.

:

You take a piece of me with you there.

:

Every time you walk away, run away.

:

You take a piece of me with you there.

:

Every time you walk away, run away.

:

You take a piece of me with you there.

:

Oh, it seems I'm walking right to your door.

:

My heart still resting.

:

Are you ever going to see everything you mean to me?

:

I'm trying really hard to believe.

:

Every time you walk away, run away.

:

You take a piece of me with you there.

:

Every time you walk away, run away.

:

You take a piece of me with you there,

:

you walk away, run away.

:

Never feels right when I'm out here on my own.

:

I left last night and it feels like way too long.

:

Are you ever going to see everything you mean to me?

:

I'm trying really hard to believe.

:

Every time you walk away, run away.

:

You take a piece of me with you there.

:

Every time you walk away, run away.

:

You take a piece of me with you there.

:

Every time you walk away, run away.

:

You take a piece of me with you there.

:

Come back to me,

:

smile, and you make my life.

:

Complete.

:

Every time you walk away, run away.

:

You take a piece of me with you there.

:

Every time you walk away, run away.

:

You take a piece of me with you there.

:

Every time you walk away, run away.

:

You take a piece of me with you there.

:

Every time you walk away, run away.

:

You take a piece of me with you there.

:

Every time you walk away, run away.

:

You take a piece of me with you there.

:

Every time you walk away, run away.

:

You take a piece of me with you there.

:

Every time you walk away, run away.

:

Every time you walk away, run away.

:

You take a piece of me,

Leif:

I'm just gonna start recording just 'cause you are actually

Leif:

dropping some, uh, good stuff here.

Leif:

I'm sure if people would be interested to hear that kind of thing.

Norman Buckley:

Okay.

Norman Buckley:

Do you wanna like do your intro first or what do you wanna, how do you wanna do it?

Leif:

Uh, uh, yeah, so I'll, I'll, I'll read my little intro here.

Leif:

So.

Leif:

Hey, upper East Siders and all you Scandal loving listeners out there,

Leif:

you've just tuned into the Non-Judging Breakfast Pod where the coffee is

Leif:

strong, the waffles are fresh, and the gossip is hotter than ever.

Leif:

My name is Leif and I'm your seasoned gossip girl veteran.

Leif:

And normally this is where Steve would come in, but he

Leif:

was not able to bake it today.

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Non Judging Breakfast Pod
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