Gossip Girl S1E17 - Woman on the Verge [with Shannon Kelly]

>> Steve: And then I hear Robin yell.

>> Shannon: Oh.

>> Steve: And I look up and it says right there, blair, we're the non judging breakfast club. And I'm like, I get it. We're 17 episodes into a podcast, and I now know why we're called this.

>> Leif: Hey, Upper East Siders. And all you scandal loving listeners out there, you just tuned into the non judging breakfast podcast, where the coffee is strong, the waffles are fresh, and the gossip is hotter than ever. My name is Leif, and I'm your seasoned gossip girl veteran.

>> Steve: And I'm Steve, the newbie on the block exploring the glitz and glam of the upper east side for the very first time. I'm the fresh meat, the greenhorn, the, I don't know, what do you call the gossip girl? New guy? Leif.

>> Leif: Well, I don't think you're quite a woman on the verge, so just keep you as a project for now. You know, the girl has the potential to be a blairite.

>> Steve: All right, well, dress me up in an eleanor Waldorf original and let's get started.

>> Leif: Sounds good.

>> Steve: Alright, so, folks, here's the deal. Leap has been a living and breathing gossip girl since the beginning, and I'm diving in head first. Together, we're your dynamic duo, dissecting the drama, romance, and sometimes questionable fashion choices of this iconic show.

>> Leif: That's right. Each week well be taking a deep dive into the show one episode at a time. Well analyze all the parallels, obscure references, and of course, the couture catastrophes. Plus, we will also be touching on the behind the scenes gossip and stories from fandom.

>> Steve: And because were all about inclusivity here, whether youre a lifelong fan or a first timer like me, theres a seat at the non judging breakfast table just for you. So grab your coffee, your mimosa, or maybe some of nate and Chuck's special medicine if it's that kind of day. And let's dish on the dirt on Gossip girl one takedown at a time.

>> Leif: Okay, so, Steve, we are not alone today.

>> Steve: No, we are not alone today. we have a friend of ours visiting today.

>> Leif: Yes, we are here with, the very funny Shannon Kelly. Hi.

>> Steve: Hello. Welcome, Shannon. Yes. See how funny she is? We already told her that if this doesn't work out, we're just gonna cut her out of the episode. Yep, yep.

>> Leif: Already. To hit the mute button.

>> Steve: I would also like to say that Shannon is one of the most fun people to play D and D with. we've been playing D and D together. She's one of the best. Like, I've had a lot of people run D and D, and she's one of the best DM's that I've. That I've played with. And she's a lot of fun when she builds characters and just leans in.

>> Shannon: Oh, God, my heart. That's great, because I have a lot of writing critiques for this episode.

>> Leif: I haven't got a chance yet because I do not play five e. Yeah.

>> Steve: Although Shannon and I do play in a Pathfinder game together.

>> Shannon: Yeah, I'm learning it.

>> Leif: Yeah. No one invited me.

>> Steve: It's. She'll. It's shields. It's mostly manny on locals. yeah. I don't know how Shannon got invited to that one either.

>> Leif: So, Shannon, what is your history with Gossip Girl?

>> Shannon: When I was, like, I want to say middle school, but I was probably older, and it's more embarrassing than that, but I know, let's go with middle school. M. At some point, I was three.

>> Leif: Years older than the actor, so that means I was about six years older than characters in shows on.

>> Shannon: So, I don't, like, remember the books that well, but I know that I had them, I know that I read them, and then I probably watched the show when it came out. I wasn't super into Gossip Girl. I was very, very into the OC and Wontreal, and I always felt that Gossip Girl was kind of like a cheap knockoff of the OC.

>> Leif: It is.

>> Shannon: Yeah. Especially, like, the parents in the show are all, like, almost, like, copy for copy, just like, this is a version.

>> Leif: But Holly is Jimmy.

>> Steve: Yeah, but copy of a copy in a way of, like, when you actually make a copy of a copy of someone, like, many of them aren't quite as good. Like, the dad. Like Rufus compared to.

>> Shannon: Yeah, yeah, compared to. Cohen said, I felt like, when you run out of those other shows, like, gossip Girl is, like, then next in line, and it, like, fills that void for you. So I watched it, like, when it came out, probably, or around that time, and then I watched it again a couple years ago, just, to kill. But this, my. This would be my third watch.

>> Leif: Okay. Do you have a favorite or least favorite character?

>> Shannon: God, I don't know. I feel like there are characters I should like.

>> Leif: It does change season to season.

>> Shannon: Yeah. I feel like the character that I probably identify with the most would be Jenny at that age.

>> Leif: We are big Jenny fans on the show, but she is a controversial character in fandom.

>> Shannon: Yeah. I feel like that's why I like her, though.

>> Leif: Yeah.

>> Steve: Well, and she's also at her, like, lowest point on the show right now. Like, this is the lowest her.

>> Shannon: Stop.

>> Leif: Just. Just wait.

>> Steve: Yeah, I, will. Yeah.

>> Shannon: And I think the reason that I like Jennie and identify with it, I feel like a lot of her flaws and, like, the things about her character that are unlikable are a product of, like, this culture and world that she was born into. And, like, I find that really fascinating. Just, like, the, like, I don't think it's that her character is really all that bad. I think that she just, like, I.

>> Leif: Think she's written, like an actual teenager. Yeah.

>> Shannon: Exactly.

>> Leif: Where the other characters are written as young adults.

>> Shannon: Yeah, yeah.

>> Steve: And. And it's not even so much the world she's born into. It's that she's kind of born into one world and then forced into another and has to, you know, sink or swim.

>> Shannon: Yeah. She's getting, like, pressure on all sides, like, from her dad and then from, like, society and then from her school. Yeah. I just. I, like, appreciate her.

>> Steve: Yeah. Yeah.

,: 2008

>> Steve: I did not. I feel like it sounds familiar, but I couldn't place where it was from at all.

of a nervous breakdown. As a: 1988

>> Shannon: For some reason, when I read woman on the verge, man on the run comes into.

>> Steve: Yeah. And I had man on the edge in my head, and I don't know if that's a thing.

>> Leif: I think I'm got the band on the run.

>> Steve: Yeah. Okay.

Blair. yeah, bad news. Player: 1617

>> Steve: Yeah, you know, pretty much solid b work. With high society coming in at.

>> Leif: You know, we both gave that an.

>> Steve: A. Yeah, we both gave high society in a,

>> Leif: Which was the debutante ball.

>> Steve: Yeah. With Cece's introduction.

>> Leif: Yes. How do you feel about Cece? You like her as a character?

>> Shannon: Cece? that's the grandmother, the grandpa. Of course I don't. She's a terrible. How can you get worse than Lily? Cece, she exudes evil. Yeah.

>> Leif: She's having fading, though. Villain evil, sitting there drinking her little teacup of gin during that episode, that.

>> Shannon: High society episode, like, when Serena goes off, and then the expression on Cece's face, just like, oh, horror.

>> Leif: That was great. The episode was directed by Tony Warmby. This is his third episode of the season. Previously did Victor Victrola, which we both liked, and school lies, which you gave it bi. Gave it an a. Yeah, yeah.

>> Steve: And, you know, we both liked the episode, but, yeah, and Victor. Victorola was a great episode, too. and I feel like that's one of those episodes where we also threw a lot of credit to the directing there. Was really good. Yeah. I mean, the cuts, the. The limo scene, all that stuff.

>> Shannon: Oh, that's where Larry and Jill cook up. Okay.

>> Leif: I also wanted to bring up something, someone we've actually kind of ignored a little bit. so far, we've been mainly giving credit to Josh Schwartz for the music and the OC and Gossip Girl. He does deserve credit. He's the showrunner, so it's his show. But the music supervisor on both those shows as well. She also worked on the Twilight saga and Grey's Anatomy. Bridgerton, Alexandra Pastelus. She was very much involved in all this. She's the one that came up with, like, she's the one going out and getting these bands. She's the one on the OC who got back to be, like, fel. Like, they did time, the album release and, like, that. Like, five songs in one episode, and then, you know the song fix you by Coldplay?

>> Steve: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Leif: That premiered on the OC. The world premiere was on the essay.

>> Steve: Yeah, yeah.

>> Shannon: Music was so good.

>> Leif: Yeah.

>> Steve: also, the arrangements on Bridgerton. Like, Bridgerton's on this list, too, and, like, some of those, like, classical arrangements and stuff like that are extraordinary.

>> Leif: She definitely deserves a large chunk of the credit.

>> Steve: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

>> Leif: anything else before we go into the episode?

>> Steve: I don't think so. I think we're ready. are you doing the television without pity?

>> Leif: Oh, yes.

>> Steve: Yeah.

>> Leif: Forgot about that. Yes. The television without pity recap. Spotted Lisa Loeb looking exactly the same way she always has, singing the song she's always sung and playing host of Rufus and Lily's reconciliation and boot knocking. That part was awesome because, of course, their sad Laura Ashley lunchbox purse love could only be reignited at the where are they now? Party for the lame nineties bands. It also goes well with the storyline, which is straight out of boy meets world.

>> Steve: I always love what they have to say.

>> Leif: And then, the gossip girl opening monologue. In our modern age, when you call someone and can't find them, you pretty much should be sure they'll meet the message. But if they don't call you back, it usually means they don't want to be found.

>> Shannon: Gossip Girl quotes, like, the actual gossip girl tweets, I guess, are so bad. They weren't as bad in this episode as they can be. Sometimes they make absolutely sense. There's, like, no punch or there's, like.

>> Steve: Huge stretches to it. Yeah, yeah. Just. Just say it, gossip Girl.

>> Shannon: Yeah.

>> Steve: Can you stop being coy?

>> Leif: So we begin act one. After the opening monologue, Georgina is shown walking down the street, leaving multiple voicemails for s stalker.

>> Steve: She's so bad at crazy. Like. Like, you just know that an actor was like, play crazy. And she's like, I'll show you crazy. It's like. And it's. And I feel like she learned crazy from Elijah Dushku is where is what I was starting to feel.

>> Shannon: Yeah, I don't know who that is.

>> Steve: faith on Buffy.

>> Shannon: I've never seen Buffy.

>> Steve: Okay.

>> Leif: yeah, thou house.

>> Shannon: Sorry. I only watched Gossip Girl.

>> Leif: Okay, fair enough. At the loft, Rufus asks Dan for advice on the set, on his set list for the upcoming concert. Then he segues into Dan's girl problems. Rufus advises Dan to be less judgmental.

>> Shannon: How do you guys feel about the quote? it stuck in my head, like, it was a good quote, but then I'm like, wait a minute. No. Where it's like, learn. Like, oh, I should learn to be somebody else around her so she can be herself around me. This, like, a cathartic moment.

>> Leif: And he's like, yeah, do that, Dan.

>> Steve: Yeah.

>> Leif: Well, that's pretty bad advice, actually.

>> Steve: Yeah.

>> Shannon: It might be good advice for Dan, though.

>> Leif: Well, and, I mean, it's good advice for you. What's the relationship to last? I guess.

>> Steve: And I think that Rufus's point was it started with, you're pretty judgmental.

>> Shannon: Yeah.

>> Steve: Yeah. So I think that. And Dan is pretty judgmental. We've seen that all along. So that. So it makes sense for Rufus. To be like, yes. Don't do that. Like, I understand that. Don't be like that for her. But you're right. It absolutely comes out like, yes. Change who you are for women.

>> Shannon: Yeah. I didn't know. I didn't know how I felt about it. I was like, oh, that's, like, a cool quote. And then I was like, but wait a minute. Don't do that, dad.

>> Leif: Elsewhere in Brooklyn, Nate shows up to flirt with Vanessa. Nate gets a troubling call, but they agree to have their first date at the concert tonight. Sounds like we got an event of the week, folks.

>> Steve: Yeah. Yeah. The Vh one classic. it's gonna be aired on VH one classic, the event of the week.

>> Leif: We'Re gonna be watching on YouTube for five years.

>> Steve: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Shannon: Yes, indeed. Well, we'll get there. I'm probably in a minority, but I ship Nate and, Vanessa. I like the two of them together.

>> Steve: I do, too. I really like them.

>> Leif: and he makes her tolerable.

>> Shannon: Yeah. Well, yeah, and also, like, I think he needs to, like, break out of his toxic world, and she can, like, show him the actually cool parts of New York City.

>> Steve: Yeah.

>> Shannon: And, like, yeah, I like the two of them together.

>> Steve: I think Nate is also. He's. He's such a realistic character, and so he's. He's a realist in many ways, and I think that he really understands that there's a chance that he's not going to have the lavish lifestyle that he had, that there's going to be cuts. Like, yeah, his mom's family still is going to have money, but there's still. But there's going to be legal fees and all that stuff. So he's prepared to be much more. Taking the subway. Yeah.

>> Shannon: To live in New York City and be like, I'm taking the subway for the first time.

>> Steve: But, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, if you had a.

>> Leif: Car service, but, why not? Why, why would you do.

>> Steve: Why would you ever step down into the pits of hell that are the New York subways. Yeah.

>> Leif: Bart and Lily are going through their agenda when Dan shows up looking for Serena. They haven't seen her, and it doesn't look like she has. She was home last night. So Dan resorts to asking shop. Not good. When you got resorts, though, asking Chuck.

>> Steve: No. And I love when Chuck gets the phone call, and he's like, I thought she was with you. And he starts walking out, and he keeps looking over his shoulder at Dan, and the way he just, like, closes the door, like, maybe you're sus, brah.

>> Leif: Yeah. That's the next part of the scene, which is.

>> Steve: Yeah.

>> Leif: Chuck gets a call because discussing Serena, and Dan tries to eavesdrop, but Chuck literally shuts the door in his face.

>> Steve: So great. He shut him. He. And if I remember correctly, he shut him into his own room. Like, Chuck shut him into his own apartment. Yeah. So great.

>> Leif: Nate and Chuck, share an awkward elevator ride before arriving at Blair's penthouse.

>> Steve: Yeah, it's fantastic. And this kind of goes right into the next scene.

>> Leif: Yeah. Which is. The boys are confused as why they are summoned, and Dorota informs them, that they. The player hasn't arrived yet. Nate looks annoyed. Chuck is amused. He just said that, like, smirking.

>> Steve: Yeah, he's glad that he's. That they're back together. Back together again. Yeah.

>> Leif: Back on the street, Georgina is still leaving messages. She walks up to the palace and aiming to confront Serena when she spots Dan. Georgina tries to duck behind cover but is too late. as Dan sees her, the acting.

>> Shannon: In the scene, the way I watched. I, like, rewatched it. I watched it three times. Like, the way that she starts walking up, she sees Dan, like, oh, crap. And turns around, and then he's like, sarah.

>> Steve: Dan. Yeah. You show me. Surprise.

>> Shannon: It's just all over the top.

>> Steve: Yes. So, Terry, I think my note. Yeah, empty. Is so bad. Is my note.

>> Shannon: And then there's the line. She's, like, leaving Serena the message. She's like, oh, like, I got your coffee the way you like it, jerk. But sweet. And I'm like, what does. What does that mean?

>> Leif: I guess no cream, but lots of sugar.

>> Shannon: Like, what is the, like, underlying message? What is where?

>> Steve: Implying where is in the show? Yeah. Yeah. is this the closest that we're going to get to a black character on the show? It's just an off screen, somewhat sexual reference.

>> Shannon: Yes. Oh, good zinger. Georgina.

>> Leif: Yeah. Yeah. So Georgina falls back into Sarah Persona, and she's trying to get info on Serena from Dan. And she, you know, Dan gets a call and the car id says serena. It turns out to be the bartender at one oak. It sounds like Serena left the bar. down one phone, but up three guys.

>> Shannon: I want to point out one thing from the scene that goes way over Dan's head and that, like, I feel like he should remember later, which is that he is the number one person on Serena's speed dial.

>> Steve: Yeah.

>> Shannon: Like, that is, like, a significant thing that he just, like, he's like, why is the bartender calling me? Because you're number one in her life, dude.

>> Steve: Yeah. Yeah, but.

>> Leif: Yeah, but you see his heartbreak when he hears the three guys.

>> Shannon: Yeah. Fair, fair.

>> Steve: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I would be a little upset. Although at the same time, my first thing would be to go and get that phone.

>> Shannon: No, no. It's all the way at one.

>> Leif: Okay.

>> Shannon: Where are the umbrella?

>> Leif: Well, if you remember how, Serena feels about phones in episode two.

>> Steve: Oh, yeah, she just tossed the trash.

>> Leif: Yeah, I'll get another one tomorrow.

>> Steve: She? Yeah, it's like, from, the Kimmy Schmidt the first episode, which he's like, would you like some water? And she says no, and she drops it in the trash. Drops the bottle of water in the trash can.

>> Leif: blair finally shows up with a passed out serena. Nate and chuck help carrier off the elevator. That's when blair brings her back to the apartment.

>> Shannon: I feel like this is the first scene that we get that is not a flashback where we get to see these four characters operating as a friend group and also the way that they handle serena. This is familiar to them. M they have not seen the side of serena, but they know the side of serena. I, like that. It gives a sense of history to these characters. We've heard about it, but we've not.

>> Leif: Shown it outside of the flashbacks and the, thanksgiving episode.

>> Steve: Exactly. And it went. Yeah, it went full into, like, serena protocol.

>> Shannon: Yeah, exactly. It was like coffee, dorota.

>> Leif: Yeah. Operation serenas chefs go through the list of hangover cures.

>> Steve: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

>> Shannon: I was, like, heartbroken for serena, though, seeing her in that elevator, I was like, oh, yeah.

>> Leif: So that is the setup in act. Why we go to act two. Blair and nate try to get a distraught Serena into the shower. While Chuck goes over various hangover cures. Blair begins to undress serena. Chuck tries to sneak a peek, but Nate, the gentleman, steps out of the bathroom and closes the door on PNS.

>> Shannon: I'm not even sure. Like, yeah, I do think he was trying to sneak a peek. Cause he's Chuck mask. But, like, it was also, like, then he. He says, like, nate says to him, like, oh, like, I think you're enjoying this. And then he says, call me sentimental. And I think, like, it. It was almost like he was, like, admiring just the, like, not even just, like, let me check this girl out. But, like, ah, the good days.

>> Steve: Yeah, yeah. I mean, and he's alluded to that all along, that he's wanted Serena to be a party girl.

>> Shannon: Yeah.

>> Leif: Yeah. Serena is throwing up, and Blair comes out to explain what's going on to Chuck and Nate. She doesn't reveal everything, but tells them they have to help Serena no matter what. Yeah. Actually saying, like, yeah, they're. They're ride or die now. They're. They're ride or die mode. Serena.

>> Shannon: Friendship.

>> Steve: Yeah. I did feel like the handheld camera shots were a little overkill on the drama. Like, a little too homicide. Life on the streets. but it did definitely add to the urgency of the scene.

>> Leif: So since vhy can afford, Rhodey's, apparently Rufus and Vanessa are loading the year for the show when Rufus sees an article about Lily's wedding to Bart. Rufus is worried about Dan and Serena.

>> Shannon: Yeah, well, beauty, beauty. Bags, bass, front cover. Just a picture of her, not the couple.

>> Steve: Yeah, and Rufus, like, why are you being such a dick to this roadie? Like, could you read that somewhere else? Like, he doesn't know your fucking history with this person. He's getting paid probably shit to move your stuff around.

>> Leif: Well, first of all, don't lean up against my car. I mean, come on, guys. You're leaning up against my car. That's my sweet van.

>> Steve: Yeah, his tour van. Ask Robin. That's, like, literally my dream car is like a tour van. And she's always like, that's the creepy van.

>> Shannon: A tour van that comes with its own group of brodies.

>> Steve: Yes. And equipment.

>> Leif: we see Rufus with Essa looking at a billboard sized poster of Rufus exclaiming that they both love that shot. We immediately cut to a smaller print of the same photo held by a journalist interviewing Lily about the photo that she, in fact, took. And this journalist is such a dick.

>> Shannon: I am so, like, I'm probably most excited to talk about this interview because it is the most insane, bonkers, bizarre Georgina sparks plant. Like, what is this about? I wrote it beat for beat. So I'd like you to introduce the scene.

>> Leif: But, yeah, yeah, the interview is being a bit pushy with this question, so Lily is happy to be interrupted by Dan. Lily directs Dan to Blair's penthouse.

>> Shannon: Yeah. So this interview. I have to talk about it.

>> Leif: Yeah, go ahead.

>> Shannon: So the first question, which is arguably the only question that, made any sense, was, where did you take this photo? And then she doesn't answer that question. And he plows forward. He does not care that she does not answer that question. He's like, this is the most iconic photo. Where did you take it? And then she's like, oh, I don't know. The most iconic. And he's like, next question.

>> Leif: This is before or after you started dating Rufus?

>> Shannon: Yeah, and exactly. Then he's like, were you and Rufus involved at this time? And then she's like, I don't really want to talk about my personal life. Let's talk about the job. And he's like, then he gaslights her. And he's like, I am talking about the job. And then he keeps going, and he's like, oh, well, why? Why? Oh, yeah. Then his next question is, like, why did you give up photography? Is it because of how much you loved Ruth? It's like. It's like, did you give up your love of photography?

>> Steve: Because I'm Shannon, let me explain this to you as a man that, a woman might, you know, give up everything she loves if a man breaks her heart enough.

>> Shannon: Well, no, this one was. Was it too hard after you broke his heart?

>> Steve: Right, right. Yes. Cause a woman should feel super guilty about breaking a man's heart, that they should uproot their entire life.

>> Shannon: I can no longer look at her.

>> Leif: Well, her response was, I didn't love him that much.

>> Shannon: Yeah, that's at the end. But at this point, she asks him to leave. She's like, okay. And then she, like, reiterates, like, I have a wedding to go to. You have a rehearsal then to go to. But, like, she's pushing forward. Like, let's not talk about Rufus. And then instead of leaving, he's like, were your photos so good because you loved him? She's like, please, please leave. And then, like. And then finally when she says that line, they're like, oh. Like, I didn't love him that much. And he's like, thank you for your time. As if. Like, he's like, that's what I was going for. I want to read that interview. I want to see that Rolling Stones article.

>> Steve: Yeah.

>> Leif: You really killed that article.

>> Shannon: It is so freaking bizarre. I was like, what is happening here? It, like, took me out of it so much because I was just like, what. What is this guy's aim? Like, what is he doing? Why does he hate her?

>> Steve: When I asked her these questions, like, she's gonna break.

>> Leif: Yeah.

>> Steve: What journalist is gonna defend what they're saying to this person?

>> Leif: It's like he was trying to get her to confess to murder or something.

>> Shannon: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was interrogating her like a cop.

>> Steve: Where was this picture taken?

>> Leif: Dad shows up at the penthouse looking for Serena and Blair. Chuck and Nate keep deflecting his questions. Yeah. Like, yeah, there's here where he's down at the bottom of the stairs, and he's trying to get up and they're kept. No, she's not here. She doesn't want to see you.

>> Shannon: It's weird that Adlai is, like, I felt like, on the one hand, like, dan's, always been, like, an outsider, and they are kind of, like, reinforcing that here. But I was also kind of proud of them, like, protecting Serena from m Dan in this moment. Not that he was, like, going to do or say anything to, like, but it was like, oh, that's her choice if she wants to talk. And, like, right now, we're taking care of her, and he doesn't need to be here.

>> Steve: Like, exactly.

>> Leif: Which she does. She does actually come down. Right. You know, and Serena comes down, and Dan confronts her about the guys at the bar. Serena says she cheated. Dan says he's done, and walks out. And wouldn't you know, it's perfect timing as he gets a call from Sarah.

>> Shannon: And so here's where Dan completely forgets that he's going to be not judgmental.

>> Leif: But I. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I really like Penn Badgley's acting, though, in the scene.

>> Shannon: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Lying to someone about cheating when you haven't done it is such a motherfucker.

>> Leif: Yeah.

>> Shannon: You can, like, break someone's trust in two ways. You can either cheat on them or you can lie to them about cheating on them when you have.

>> Leif: Well, Serena's whole character through this whole arc has just been so, like, what are you doing, girl? What are you doing?

>> Steve: I also, when this goes back a little bit, when Dan walks in and they're all standing there and he goes, don't you all hate each other? And Claire are both like, yes. And Chuck's like, no. and also, I wanted to point out that I love that Lily calls him Charles.

>> Shannon: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Charles. Yes.

>> Steve: Ah.

>> Shannon: Ah. Of course.

>> Steve: Yeah.

>> Leif: No, I think Charles, Lily and Bart are walking, and Lily get seems flustered by mundane wedding stuff. However, Freud might say Lily is having some last minute doubts about who she's marrying rather than the play settings.

>> Steve: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, she. She's never been in. She's never been marrying Bart bass because she loves it. That's never been something, I think, that's questionable.

>> Shannon: She has said it several times, and then, like, the conversations that they've had together, like, not the way that she talks to other people about him or her relationship, but the way that they've talked to each other, it seems like it's like, oh, I want you to take me seriously, and, like, I don't know. I'm very confused.

>> Leif: I think she likes her, but the one thing that makes it weird is, like, so the one what? She was originally going to go with Rufus, and Rufus said, I'm not ready for marriage now, and she said, I am, so I'm going to go with bar.

>> Shannon: Yeah. So it's like, yeah, well, there is an understated patience to Bart bass throughout this episode.

>> Steve: Like, yeah, well. Well, and, there's a lot that I. Because there's a lot of things about him that I. That I both love and hate with, you know?

>> Leif: I mean, yeah. At this point in the show, he I mean, he's a cold father, but he's not a horrible guy. He's trying with Eric.

>> Steve: Yeah. And he's trying, and he's trying to be a partner to lily. Like, and we'll and that'll come up in a little bit. But, like, Bart in general, like, I feel like this is a as much a business arrangement, you know, a royalty marriage as much as it is an affectionate marriage, whereas I think that Rufus is the fairy tale marriage.

>> Shannon: Yeah, the fairy tale, you know? I guess I feel like it's more of, like, it's less. It's more personal than an arrangement. Like a business arrangement, but it's it is like, it's less personal than love. Yeah.

>> Steve: Like, yeah. Yeah, exactly. I think it's more. Yeah. Like, a joining of property, you know, adjoining of family.

>> Shannon: Yeah. Yeah. They're like, we we like each other, and it works, and we're adults, and, like, this is an adult relationship where, like, we don't need passion.

>> Steve: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Leif: I think Bart does love Lily as much as Bart can love someone.

>> Shannon: Yeah.

>> Steve: Yeah, I can see that. And I do think that Lily has a love for Bart, but I don't think it's the same type of love, you know? Yeah.

>> Leif: Lily gets a call from Dorota, who tells Lily she should be worried about Serena.

>> Shannon: Dorota.

>> Steve: Ah. Looking out. Yeah. This is, and this is the most involved. I feel like she's been directly in a plot line.

>> Shannon: Yeah.

>> Leif: Well, she did something similar in the thanksgiving as well, where she, she tipped off player to call your father.

>> Steve: Oh, yeah.

>> Leif: Yeah. Oh, your father.

>> Steve: Yeah.

>> Leif: When.

>> Steve: That's right. When he wasn't going to be there for thanksgiving.

>> Leif: And the reason why, like, their mom lied to the reason.

>> Steve: Yeah. And she did say to call her father.

>> Shannon: Yeah. But she's like, Blair's like, was she housemaid? I guess.

>> Leif: Yeah.

>> Shannon: But, yeah, for her to, like, call literally.

>> Steve: Yeah.

>> Shannon: Yeah. That is like, her taking wiggle

>> Leif: But, yeah, I think actually the writing actually did set it up well, that this is something that, because she's like, lily, I know who you are, dorota. You don't tell me who you are. So she's like, yeah, so, like that. I thought that was a decent writing setting up, that this is something that's happened before.

>> Steve: Yeah, it's also. It also kind of shows that Dorota doesn't really expect to be remembered by all of the Waldorf's friend.

>> Leif: I'm sure the archival have no idea who she is.

>> Steve: Yeah, exactly. I think that every time they call, she has to be like, who's this Dorito that's calling me? And every single time, and it's like, no, guys, it's rude.

>> Leif: Lily rummages through Serena's drawers and finds the flash drive. So, yeah, this is where she watches the video, but she doesn't watch the whole thing.

>> Shannon: Well, is this where she watches it, or does that happen? Is that where she starts?

>> Steve: Well, I think she watched. No, she. She finds it there, and then she watches it while Serena's telling.

>> Leif: Yeah.

>> Steve: Yeah. So it's kind of interwoven.

>> Shannon: Do we get, like, the initial scene, though, where, like, georgina's setting up the camera?

>> Leif: Yeah, I think so.

>> Shannon: should we talk about this tape or should we wait until, like, after, like, the entire tape is revealed?

>> Leif: We'll talk about the end.

>> Steve: Yeah. Because there's a lot to do. Yes.

>> Shannon: What she, like, rummaging through? Was she looking for drugs?

>> Leif: I guess, yeah, I assume so, yeah.

>> Steve: Or any. Or any evidence that she's back to her old ways.

>> Leif: And I guess she assumes that tape was just made recently.

>> Shannon: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Has, ah, like, a keychain that says, watch me.

>> Steve: Yeah.

>> Leif: Back at the penthouse, Serena tells the others that she didn't cheat on Dan. What she did was far worse. Nate, Chuck and Blair admit their sins, and Blair says the thing they are, the non judging breakfast club.

>> Steve: I flipped out, when we were watching this, first of all, and it was so great. And there will be post about this after this video airs. But, I was watching that, and when they were going through their list of, like, I slept with this person. You slept with me.

>> Leif: And.

>> Steve: And then he just. I'm Chuck bass.

>> Shannon: Yeah.

>> Steve: And I fucking lost it. I just absolutely lost it to the point where I paused the show and then I hear Robin yellow.

>> Shannon: Oh.

>> Steve: And I look up and it says right there, blair, we're the non judging breakfast club. And I'm like, I get it. We're 17 episodes into a podcast, and I now know why we're called this.

>> Shannon: Yeah. That's the single best delivery of, I'm Chuck Bass. In the entire show, it's like, tell us the awful things you've done. It's also kind of the writers being like, let's not remind you of why you should hate this character. Yeah.

>> Steve: Because within that. And he says that to her, this is someone you tried to sexually assault in episode one that we're trying. They're trying real hard to make us forget.

>> Shannon: Yeah. Blair's like, I fucked him and he fucked you, and Chuck's fucked everyone whether they wanted him to or not.

>> Leif: Oh, boy.

>> Shannon: Chuck, bass, I put the charm in rape. You might be thinking there is no charm and rape. There is now because I forced it in there.

>> Leif: Oh, boy.

>> Steve: Jesus Christ.

>> Shannon: Sorry.

>> Leif: Yes.

>> Shannon: I also like in this scene, it feels like they're ignoring the cliffhanger from the episode before because Blair has the knowledge that, like, Serena has said, I killed somebody. Like, I murdered somebody. And she's like, you can tell us anything, Serena. I've seen you with puke in your hair, and it's like, those things are not on the same.

>> Leif: Definitely not. Definitely.

>> Steve: Yeah.

>> Shannon: Like, if that's. If that's her worst, like, maybe you don't want to know what she did.

>> Steve: Yeah. There's a leap.

>> Shannon: Yeah. Like, she should be, like, approaching this conversation in, like, a way that kind of, like, expecting the absolute worst.

>> Steve: Yeah.

>> Shannon: Said she's like, come on, just m. Tell us.

>> Steve: And on our previous episodes leading up to this, I've been saying, somebody better be fucking dead. She was acting. I kept saying, someone better be fucking dead for serena to be acting like this.

>> Leif: Yeah. Serena. So Serena finally reveals what Georgia is blackmailing about. We get various flashbacks from the night of the shepherd wedding. Then paralleling the flashback is the pile episode. We see Lily watching the sex tape as, ah, Serena is describing it to her friends. Lily, however, stops the video before getting the full reveal.

>> Shannon: But we get the full reveal.

>> Leif: Yeah.

>> Shannon: Yeah. So this tape.

>> Steve: Yeah.

>> Shannon: Good God. It, like, it's Pandora's box. It, like, it. It creates so many more problems than it resolves. It's so, like, oh, God, there's so many thoughts I have about this date, first of all, and the way that it's addressed and not addressed and just everything about it. First of all, why is Georgina blackmailing Serena with something that incriminates herself far worse than Serena?

>> Steve: On every level.

>> Shannon: On every level.

>> Steve: On every level.

>> Shannon: Yeah.

>> Steve: Like, oh, I have this tape, that I set up without your knowledge and recorded of you making out with a guy who died from drugs I gave him.

>> Shannon: Yeah. And got you. Got you. And then you were like, let's call the cops. And I was like, no, don't.

>> Steve: Yeah. And then, yeah. And I was like, no, don't. And then I took the tape, and now I have it.

>> Shannon: Yeah. Like, it's so bizarre. And then, like, for Lily to be watching it, to be a parent and to see that, like, your daughter is inebriated and, like, you saw the prologue, like, you've got the, like, little clip from Georgina being like, oh. Like, you know that Serena doesn't know she's being recorded, that this is happening without her consent. And then to be like, oh, my daughter is such a slut.

>> Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man, she's drunk. And this guy that she doesn't want to make out with keeps making out with her.

>> Shannon: You should. Like, you should not only watch that whole video, but, like, you should be like, I want this guy to be fucking dead. And when he dies at the end, you should be like, good.

>> Steve: Yeah. My daughter is not. Did nothing wrong.

>> Shannon: Yeah. And sorry. I just. One last thing. I feel like. And then with Serena, too, like, for her and I have all this guilt and to feel so, so bad about this video, and it's like, oh, this is the worst thing that's ever happened to me. Like, if that guy didn't die, she would have been sexually assaulted, and it probably would have been distributed as revenge porn. Like, him dying is the best thing that's ever happened to her.

>> Steve: His parents are like, yep. Which we'll get to.

>> Leif: But back to the black male, my impression was that what the blackmail wasn't. She's going to reveal it. Like, the cops. She's going to reveal it to Daniel. And Serena knows that Dan will judge her.

>> Shannon: Yeah, but, like, oh, God, even I don't know. Serena's like, I feel like the writers made a huge mistake here. Like, it's such a letdown from the cliffhanger of the episode prior, and I feel like, to fix it, it's like the smallest tweak, literally just change Georgina and Serena's reactions. Like, it should be Serena being like, please. Like, no, we can't call the cops. And Georgina being like, why? Like, no, we should. And Serena should insist they don't, and then they don't, and the guy dies. And then it is this question of, like, did he die because we didn't call for help? And then Georgina has a reason to be harassing Serena because, like, now she has incentive. Like, you. You made me do this thing that I regret. But as it's written, it's like Serena has nothing to feel guilty about. Georgina's fucking crazy pants.

>> Steve: Yeah.

>> Leif: after record, we'll send Steven out of the room, and I'm going to tell you my theory of what the original plan was.

>> Shannon: Okay. We'll send you away.

>> Leif: Yeah, it's a bit spoiler for the.

>> Steve: For the season finale.

>> Leif: Yeah. and going forward as well.

>> Steve: Okay.

>> Shannon: But, yeah, this tape is another example. The show has a very bad habit of, like, just adding sexual assault in for, like, a reaction and then, like, not ever addressing.

>> Steve: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you sexually assault women on cocaine, you will die.

>> Shannon: Oh.

>> Steve: I mean, psa.

>> Leif: So Serena gives her explanation. So we finally get the answer to the question from the pilot of why did she leave? And why is she back? We already got the answer for why is she back? But now we finally get, why did she leave?

>> Shannon: Yeah. okay. Why is Serena. Why did Serena leave? I thought for a minute, my brain went like, why is. We get the answer to the question, why is Georgina back? But we don't ever get that.

>> Leif: She's just an agent of chaos explanation.

>> Steve: As to why Georgina.

>> Leif: She has to blackmail to get friends.

>> Steve: Yeah. Which, really, this whole boy is tabernacle with her.

>> Leif: Come on, Serena. Hang out with her.

>> Steve: Just hang out with me so I don't have to show this shit to your boyfriend that he will. They're like, yes, dan is judgmental. But Dan would see that and be like, wow, I want to fucking kill that.

>> Shannon: Oh, which, like, her plan isn't working, and in reality, she's doing another plan that has gotten her friends, which is be a different person.

>> Steve: Be likable. Just act likable.

>> Shannon: Like, dan Vanessa so willing to be her friend when she's, like, playing this pretend Sarah character. And then, like, serena is like, please leave me alone. She has the answer in the palm of her hands, and she's like, I'm gonna keep going.

>> Leif: So, we move into act three, and Serena arrives at Lily's rehearsal dinner flanked by Chuck and Blair. Lily questions Serena about the phone call from Dorota and the quote unquote sex tape on the flash drive. Lily, while rightfully worried for her daughter, backslides from her good parenting last episode by expressing her worry in the form of extreme, judgment.

>> Steve: Yeah. Like, lily coming in so hot after seeing, like, what?

>> Leif: Like, your daughter about to be sexually assaulted.

>> Steve: Yeah. And, like, the way she herself. Her expression. Watching it was what I is kind of like, what I was feeling inside. Like, oh, my God, I'm going to fucking murder this kid. And, you know, and, like, Shannon said, like, how could you stop watching that when that was happening? But, like. And then to move on to, like, sending her to reform school, like, what happened to Eric.

>> Shannon: Yeah.

>> Steve: The last time Serena went off to reform school.

>> Shannon: Yeah. This is Lily's lowest moment, in my opinion. Like, my opinion.

>> Leif: Well, I think the pilot is probably her lowest.

>> Shannon: What happens in the past?

>> Leif: Well, I mean, she basically causes Eric's suicide attempts.

>> Steve: Oh, well, yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Shannon: Okay.

>> Steve: Yeah, she's pretty shitty for the first few episodes.

>> Shannon: I don't know. I feel like if Serena was suicidal, like, this conversation would push somebody over.

>> Steve: Well, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

>> Shannon: Like, what do you think about that?

>> Leif: Thankfully, Serena is too much of a narcissist for, suicide.

>> Steve: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Leif: Blair, a great friend, tries to comfort Serena. Yeah. Blair, just be a good friend again.

>> Steve: Yeah. And. And I heard Robin talking to, Robin and shannon talking about this earlier that, like, we've seen Serena drop everything for Blair at least twice now. Three times. I think that. That even when she's at her most angry at Blair, she has dropped everything and gone to her. And now we're seeing that reciprocity. This is the first time we're really seeing Blair.

>> Steve: Drop everything. And, like, you guys mentioned earlier that we're also seeing that from Chuck and Nate, that, like, that we have, you know, that non judging breakfast club, you know, doing, like. But it's a nice change to see Serena receiving care from Blair.

>> Shannon: Yeah. Yeah. Blair steps up in this episode, and I. One thing I really like about this episode is, like, there isn't any, like, heady shit going on. Like, all the infighting in their friend group and all, like, the dumb, like, little bit.

>> Leif: There's so many, which is kind of typical the season. Like, when we get to the edit, the seasons, they kind of all. They gather together to go against the big bad.

>> Shannon: Yeah, yeah. And it's like. It's just. It is like, a bit of a breath of relief because throughout the show, you do kind of question, like, why are these people even friends? Why do you forgive these people for the things you do? And, like, I appreciate that they, like, show us, they show us why. Yeah.

>> Leif: Spotted. Nineties alt rock icon Lisa lowe backstage with Rufus and Vanessa. Rufus introduces Lisa to Dan. Sarah, I don't think Dan appreciates just how cool Rufus is right now.

>> Steve: First of all, I squealed out loud when Lisa Loeb was on. I've had a crush on Lisa Loeb, I think.

>> Leif: I think.

>> Steve: And Leif has been teasing, like, there's going to be a real nineties icon opening up for him. And it's also, like, why are you opening up for Leaky Hawk? Which, really, she does say that she's the host of the which. That is not uncommon for a host to, play a few songs and then mc the rest of the night. But I.

>> Leif: She has done stuff for beach one like that.

>> Steve: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. But it was that thought of, like, you opening for the number nine of the ten most forgotten bands of the nineties.

>> Leif: Someone in the crowd recognizes Sarah as Georgina, but she dodges.

>> Steve: Oh, gee.

>> Leif: Things are coming. Crumbling around her.

>> Steve: Yep. They should. They should. Really?

>> Leif: Yeah. Back at the other party, Blair tells Lily that she needs to give Serena understanding rather than discipline right now.

>> Shannon: Yes, Blair. Yes, Blair. This is shining moment, when she.

>> Steve: Says, I'm out of my league here.

>> Shannon: Yes.

>> Steve: Blair always has a plan. Who always has the answer? Who always has the next step? Who's always playing 40 chess? I'm out of my league here. You got to be a better mom.

>> Shannon: Yeah. And for her to, like, recognize that, like, this is, like, Lily's role and that, like. Like, this is. I'm a child, and you're an adult, and you're her mother, so, like, I can't do anything here for her.

>> Steve: Yeah. And, I mean, like, Leighton Meester is. We talk a lot about her acting jobs and, like, her vulnerability in this scene and just, like, that love that she has for Serena, it's just so. You just feel it. You just feel that scene.

>> Shannon: Yeah. And thank God she does it, because if she doesn't have this conversation with Lily, like, you know, things don't. Wouldn't have turned out.

>> Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Serena is fucking spiraling.

>> Shannon: Yeah.

>> Steve: And, Yeah.

>> Leif: Yeah. I don't know how much you know about late Meester. She, like, Blair would absolutely despise her.

>> Shannon: Oh, really?

>> Leif: She's, like, total red. She, like, she was, like, raised by her grandmother because both parents were in prison, and, like, her. And then her mom got out of prison and sued her because she was taking care of her brother, who's disabled, and.

>> Shannon: Oh, my gosh. And then she's playing this, like, uppity.

>> Leif: Like, so, yeah, she is a very good actress. That's. That's the world. That's.

>> Steve: She has something new coming out, so I want to watch, because I've never seen her in anything else.

>> Leif: So Nate calls Vanessa to let her know he's running late. When he. He finds out that Georgina Sarah slash Sarah is at the concert, Nate tells Vanessa about Sarah's real identity, but not all the details.

>> Steve: Good guy Nate.

>> Shannon: Good guy Nate.

>> Steve: I love Nate. I love Nate is always, like, in this whole episode, good guy Nate has been closing the door on Chuck, you know, looking out for steps. I love good gay.

>> Shannon: Yeah, I think he. I think he honestly, does have, like, the strongest moral compass of probably all of them. Like, the only time he really didn't is, like, sleeping with Serena. Ah. While dating Blair. Like, but like, everything else that he's, like, he has, like, a good sense of what's right and wrong.

>> Steve: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, yeah, he's. Yeah. I love Nate. I'm a Nate, Stan.

>> Shannon: Yeah. Yeah, I love Nate, too.

>> Steve: I have been all along.

>> Leif: then Nate calls Blair to let her know Georgina's location. I know Serena said, don't, do anything, but I figured you'd want it.

>> Steve: And I also love this because it is Nate. Nate doesn't want to do the dirty work, but Nate knows. But Nate wants the dirty work done, and he knows how to get it done.

>> Shannon: Yeah. It's a very political move.

>> Leif: It is.

>> Steve: 100%. It is. Yeah. I, know where the target is. It's almost, if you want to call it, a strike.

>> Leif: That's like he has politics in the blood.

>> Steve: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Leif: Lily tells, Bart that she has to go help Serena. Bart seems to generally want to help but is blown off.

>> Shannon: This is now the second time in one day that Lily is ditching Bart and not providing an explanation for it, which, like. And he is just like, I will be there to help you. Are you sure? And then. And then accepts when she's like, I'm sorry. No. So, like, I. Bart earned me some points this episode, and, like, Bart has.

>> Steve: Had that has been very true to his character and his, like, to him. Like I said, he was trying to make this a partnership and to say, you know, Serena, if we're getting married, this is my problem, too. I'm here. Whatever you need. and he was, like that way when he bought the library in one of the previous episodes, the one before Georgina actually showed up, but she was sending all the stuff. The, school ties one. Yeah.

>> Leif: And then we get Blair and Chuck reunite to take down Georgina.

>> Shannon: Dream team.

>> Steve: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Shannon: I mean, they're both terrible people. Like, I shouldn't like them and I shouldn't like them together, but, like, fucking.

>> Steve: Love it, but, like, you know, again, like, they just set everything aside because it's like, this isn't about us.

>> Shannon: Yeah.

>> Steve: It's about our friend and it's about our friend group and our friendship. Even though we all hate each other right now, we have to work together and it's just.

>> Leif: Yeah, chat doesn't hate her. Well, yeah.

>> Shannon: Them also have, like, as actors, like, great chemistry together. Like, a lot of people on the show that, like, you're supposed to ship or that are, like, supposed to end up together. It's kind of like, I don't buy it as much, but, like, between the two of them, I'm like, oh, you guys are, like, really pulling this. Yeah. You're making me want to like you.

>> Steve: Yeah.

>> Shannon: Yeah.

>> Leif: I think, Ann Bagelie and Blake's real life breakup kind of hurt.

>> Shannon: I don't really know anything about their, like, really behind the scenes.

>> Leif: So they knew each other. They went to, like, preschool together, really. And that's what she has. So serena or Blake actually, actually did not want Penn to be on the show. Like, she, like, penn was actually cast first and, like, they were coming to her and, like, they wanted her to be on the show. Serena, because she's perfect for Serena. And she's like, no, I don't want to work with him. Apparently they had, like, some beef at school. They were an actor, actors high school and stuff together. And they dated for the first three years of the show. And then, she did Green Lantern and they broke up soon after that. And, well, she's kind of marrying her co star in that one now. So you can kind of understand the chemistry. Not kind of fizzling there.

>> Steve: Speaking of which, if you look out at our bird feeder, if you see the cardinals show up, there's a cardinal that we named Ryan Red Mills a long time ago. And then when the lady cardinal started showing up, Blake flively.

>> Leif: Yes.

>> Shannon: That's fucking great.

>> Leif: Back from commercial break, Lily and Serena pull up to the house and parents, of the house of the parents of Pete Fairman, the man who overdosed in the video. So, I mean, I guess this worked for Lily, but it's, like, kind of insensitive to those parents.

>> Shannon: I saw it as, like, these parents probably, like, it's some kind of resolution for them and, like, closure because they don't really know what happened that night. And Serena's able to, like, they obviously know their son. Overdose. But here's the thing.

>> Steve: If you want to see what happened, here's the last moments of your son's life. He tried to sexually assault me. And then he od. Don't.

>> Leif: Coke when I was 16, and he was probably, like, 25. Yeah.

>> Shannon: Yeah. Well, I guess I saw it as, like, just some kind of closure for them, more than, like, a shitty thing. I'm glad they didn't show the conversation.

>> Steve: Yeah.

>> Shannon: I didn't need to say it.

>> Steve: And I kind of saw the same thing, that it seemed that, like, it was that they want, that they were willing to talk to Serena in the first place. So that's where. That's the. That's what I hope it was, you know, that Chuck. Because Chuck found the address, right? Doesn't Chuck hand her the address?

>> Leif: Yes.

>> Steve: And then. And so I hope that, you know, there was a. Hey, how would you feel if. And not just, you know, dig.

>> Leif: I don't know. Chuck's not, big on asking for permission.

>> Shannon: We also get, like, an interesting philosophy from Lily in the scene, which is, like, when you have, like, an obstacle in your way, like. Like, a problem in your life that's this big. Like, you either have to smash right through it or adjust, basically adjust your life and move around it. And I feel like that's an interesting insight into her character and the way that she processes information and what she thinks about her problem with her, this idea of, okay, Serena, you tried to adjust your life around this problem, and it has not worked, so you're going to smash into it now, which.

>> Steve: That's really funny, because then if you think about later on where. Get out of my way. She can go around.

>> Shannon: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Steve: We'll talk about that in a bit.

>> Shannon: Yeah. interesting.

>> Leif: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Shannon: Ooh.

>> Steve: Smash right through.

>> Shannon: I feel like you just, like, solved a mystery. This show is deep.

>> Steve: It tries to be.

>> Leif: It does. Like, I feel like these writers would be good writing teachers because they know, like, all these writing tricks, but they just don't.

>> Steve: They're not good writers.

>> Leif: Plus. Plus, I think the network is, like, in the year.

>> Shannon: Yeah.

>> Steve: And. And really, I mean, the. The drop off was the writers strike. I mean, I've said before that I thought that during the writers strike, they're like, oh, shit. How do we come back from this? Let's bring in Georgina sparks now instead of waiting until we can find a better actor in the new season.

>> Leif: Oh, yeah.

>> Steve: Because who's available?

>> Leif: Well, a thin line between, Chuck and Nate was supposed to be the. That was the last episode before the strike.

>> Steve: Yeah. Which was great.

>> Leif: And that was supposed to be the end of Chuck and Blair.

>> Shannon: Oh, really?

>> Leif: And then the fans, like, Chuck was only supposed to be, like, a minor character, really. In the. I mean, in the books, he's like, just like an antagonist. He's.

>> Shannon: Yeah. See, I clearly don't remember the books.

>> Leif: Yeah. He was so popular, they had to make him the romantic lead of the show.

>> Steve: and. And to be fair, as far as spoilers go on, that I am already convinced that they're all gonna fuck each other. So. So that's where I'm at.

>> Leif: Yeah, that. That's fair assumption.

>> Steve: So, like, I just. From. From the tiny little spoilers that I've gotten nothing major.

>> Shannon: And for, like, how long the show goes.

>> Steve: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Leif: That's just how these. That's how these shows tend to be.

>> Steve: They're gonna. They're gonna. They're all. They all have to fuck it.

>> Leif: Yes. And then Vanessa confronts Georgina about her real identity and offers her a chance to confess, but it's deny, deny, deny for Sarah.

>> Steve: Vanessa, you're this close.

>> Leif: So, yeah, so Georgina kind of runs off, and then, Vanessa tells dad about the fake identity, but then she runs off to help Rufus. And this gives white knight Dan a chance to find a crying Georgina.

>> Shannon: she has a bad habit of underestimating others and overestimating herself when she's talking to Georgina. And she's giving her the benefit of the doubt, giving her this opportunity to come clean. And then she has this smug look on her face, and it's like you've just given her an opportunity to manipulate her way out of this situation, you dumb, dumb bitch.

>> Leif: I definitely got dawn vibes from her crying there.

>> Steve: Oh, yeah, yeah, totally. Again, Buffy. Yeah, her and Buffy, which on Buffy the entire time, she is sort of the angenue she's brought in to be. This, literally, her character is just introduced mid series as a little sister that Buffy, as no memory, who Buffy just accepts, is always being there. and it was great in the.

>> Leif: Setup, too, because it was a season premiere, and she's just, at the end of the episode, puffy just yells at her. And the audience has, no idea who this character is, but it's like she's always been there.

>> Steve: And both of them yell mom at the same time. That's the end of the scene. And it's like, who the fuck is this? And she plays, in her first season. And the whole point is that, like, Buffy needs to protect her little sister and that it all makes sense as the story goes forward. but the whole thing is that all that whole season that dawn is in, it's all about protecting her. So the next season that she's in, that it's not all about protecting her. It's they have no idea what to do with her. But they're like, but we still have this character and so we just need to keep rescuing her and make her a complete fucking idiot and write her like a twelve year old.

>> Leif: It passes from day to night. As Lily and Serena exit the townhouse and have a honest conversation. Lily once again bounces back.

>> Shannon: Yeah. They do this so much with her character where she does 180s in a single episode where she, like, has an initial terrible reaction where you're like, wow, you're a bad mom. And then, like, by the end of the episode, she's redeemed herself. Like, it's, really, really annoying.

>> Leif: Definitely whiplash.

>> Steve: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Shannon: Because she did it. She did it with Eric coming out or coming out being outed. But, like, her initial reaction to that was bad. But then she apologizes. And then, like, at cotillion or whatever that dance was, like, it kind of happened. She's, like, talking to Serena about, like, you know, this is an event and blah, blah, blah. And then she realizes, like, oh, I'm being my mom right now. And, she apologizes. It's just like, it's be consistent.

>> Steve: Lily, I think, in her defense, I think that's kind of what I love about her is that she's always learning that, like, like, because she is such a confident person that, like. And prior to this show, she clearly was not an attentive mother. And then her son tried to kill herself. And then she really starts, like, I feel like the first three episodes, her arc is, oh, shit, I gotta be a parent to these kids. Like, m also.

>> Shannon: Yeah.

>> Steve: And so I feel like. And we've talked many times about how she's a better parent to Blair and to Dan and to Chuck.

>> Leif: Yeah.

>> Steve: than she is to Serena and Eric until five, six episodes in. So I feel like there's a lot of that learning for her of, like, I need to be a parent. And then, like, oh, shit. That's not what a parent needs to be. It needs to be this. And I'm. And I'm saying that kind of from that parent point of view of the number of times that I've yelled at my kids and then heard their response.

>> Shannon: And was like, okay, that's fair.

>> Leif: But also from just a logistical point of view, back in, you know, the network tv era shows had what was called a Bible and, like, show writer would give this to all the writers and, like, certain beats for each character. So, like, they had to do this every episode. you know, this character, you know, starts out this way and then they do this, and it's like. It is kind of the way. Because it was expected that people only watch, like, one out of three episodes.

>> Steve: Yeah, because no one was bingeing this and they were trying to catch it week by week. But who watches a show like, this week by week? It's excruciating.

>> Shannon: I guess, for me, it just comes across, like, watching her character as, like, one step forward, two steps back, and then, like. And then one step forward again, and it's just like, she just.

>> Leif: Yeah, it's just.

>> Shannon: Yeah, it's just frustrating. Like, I want to see her character grow and not just, like, constantly repeat the same.

>> Leif: Yeah, I agree. But again, it's just a function of the way tv.

>> Shannon: Yeah.

>> Leif: If there's, like, a ten episode season. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lisa.

>> Steve: Yeah.

>> Leif: Lisa Lowe performs an acoustic version of her iconic song. While Georgina tells Dan more lies about a stalker boyfriend and having to change her identity to hide from him, Georgina confesses feelings for dad, the fucking chump.

>> Steve: my note here is. Jesus Christ, Georgina, can you shut the fuck up? I'm trying to listen to Lisa Loeb.

>> Leif: Dan, how can you be that stupid? Seriously.

>> Steve: So fucking stupid.

>> Leif: You, know what's to be the white knight?

>> Steve: You want to believe he wants to.

>> Leif: Be the white knight.

>> Steve: Yeah, you believe what you want to believe. I guarantee 16 year old Steve would have fallen for every one of that and would have also been outraged about my girlfriend going out and drinking like that. Like, yep. I would have fallen for every one of this. I wouldn't. Yep.

>> Leif: We come back from commercials, and every time you walk away or run away, you take a piece of me with you there. Linkinhoff performs their big hit as Nate shows up to greet Vanessa and Chuck and Blair in tow.

>> Steve: I fucking love this song. I learned it. As you both know, I have learned it, and I am adding it to my set list whenever I play. So if you come out to my show on July 19 at fat lady brewing, please, expect, to hear some Lincoln Hawk.

>> Leif: This episode actually should be coming out on July 8.

>> Steve: Oh, nice. So it's like, yeah, right in time. Yeah, awesome. Yeah, it's the last episode before my show then, right? That's awesome. And, yeah, I had so much fun. It's. It feels like such a nineties, you know, it has that kind of dishwaller kind of vibe to it. the. I love the the vocals in it.

>> Steve: I love the chord structure of the, the verses, how it just kind of just feels like a nineties. It feels like a forgotten nineties hit. It really does. And I think it just really filled the bill. And for waiting 17 episodes to see Linkin Hawk actually play rather than just sad Rufus strumming guitar in the other room, this brought my heart joy.

>> Shannon: Oh, I'm glad that, like, the big reveal was a letdown, at least. Like, this was not a letdown for you.

>> Steve: No, no. This was not a letdown at all. Yeah. Yeah. I knew that. I knew that the body was going to be a letdown. I knew that the death. I knew Serena didn't shoot somebody. I knew that, like, oh, she didn't call 911 from her phone.

>> Shannon: She waited outside.

>> Steve: She waited outside, called 911 from that guy's phone and didn't know and, didn't have Narcan. How dare she?

>> Shannon: I feel like this scene, too, though. Like, this. One of the many crimes that Dan commits in this episode is, like. He, like, just leaves this dead show. He's like, I don't need to see him perform. It's like, what the hell, dude? Although, like, to be fair, Jenny is also nowhere. Jenny doesn't attend her dad's show, and Eric doesn't attend his mom's rehearsal dinner. But I assume they didn't want to pay the actors that week.

>> Leif: Yeah, well, I mean, Jenny. Jenny was getting paid no matter what. She's a serious regular.

>> Shannon: Yeah. So why wouldn't you bring Jenny in? That's so bizarre.

>> Steve: Yeah, sit her in there.

>> Shannon: Like, she's just not. She's just not there the whole episode anyway. Yeah.

>> Leif: Like, her storyline for the season is, like, wrapped up, I guess, and they just. Yeah. Have, another character to deal with.

>> Shannon: Yeah. But Dan's gullibility here, like, he hears somebody call her Georgina, and it happens to be the same name that Nate says on the phone. He's like, no, no, no. Why would she lie about me? Well.

>> Steve: And then when she explains, like, oh, I had to run away from my boyfriend.

>> Shannon: Oh, okay, okay. That just steps in is like. And then. And then Georgina gives every opportunity for. She's like, you're gonna miss your dad's show. Like, we should stay, which is the stupidest thing for her to do. And then he insists, like, no, we should leave. And then he misses this. Awesome.

>> Steve: Yeah, yeah. yeah. And shame on shameless. Although, to be fair, of my three kids, the oldest would have done that to me if they even showed up at all.

>> Leif: Yeah. If 16 year old me and the girl just told me she's falling for me, I probably would have ditched my dad's show as well.

>> Steve: Jake might, but Jake would feel bad about it. But bailey. Bailey would be like, yeah, yeah. Wouldn't even think about it.

>> Leif: You know? Watch it on YouTube for the next five years. Emily.

>> Steve: Emily, I think would be like, my dad is in the middle of something. Can you shut the fuck up? I'm trying to pay attention. I'm at a fucking show. Can you leave me alone? Only without all the cursing.

>> Leif: But we get Nate and Vanessa leave to go look for dad when Serena shows up and sees Blair and Chuck. Blair is, of course, famously a big fan of leaky hawk.

>> Steve: That is so great.

>> Leif: Serena. Placatell dan everything.

>> Steve: I'm a. I'm a big leaky hawk fan.

>> Leif: I love the look on, Serena's face. Tale is great. She's like, yeah. She's like, okay, moving along.

>> Steve: Yeah. And, yeah.

>> Steve: And then her realizing the gang is there for her, you know? That was.

>> Leif: That was nice. Again.

>> Steve: Yeah.

>> Leif: Lily, having dropped off Serena, is about to leave when she hears the siren call of Rufus Humphrey.

>> Steve: And at this point, she chooses to stop the exit to go back to her future husband at their rehearsal dinner for their wedding and decides instead to go watch the guy that she was only in love with. What was the line? I didn't love him that much. to go watch him say, there's.

>> Leif: Only, like, 30 seconds left in the song as well.

>> Steve: Yeah.

>> Shannon: I wish I had a camera right now. I have the urge to take photographs again.

>> Steve: Right. Well, and of course, they have the eye contact, and they lock eyes.

>> Leif: Well, yes.

>> Steve: Yeah.

>> Leif: The next few, Rufus spots Lily in the crowd and sings directly to her as if the song was about her. Lily has a moment of his nostalgia but turns and walks out before the end of the longest song ever with only two lines. No encore for Rufus. As he prints off the stage.

>> Shannon: Like, encore for Lincoln. He's like, bye.

>> Steve: He's like, no. Yeah.

>> Shannon: This stare, I realize it's supposed to be this, like, romantic moment of, like, oh. Like, look at their connection. Like, look at him singing her. He doesn't blink.

>> Steve: Robin said the whole time, she's sitting there going, blink, blink. Come on, blink.

>> Shannon: It is the most blank, blinkless stare.

>> Leif: I think Rufus is a psycho. Like, that one episode, he holds a knife to Dan. He's like, get on our side, Dan. Get on this side of the kitchen.

>> Shannon: Yeah. I don't like. I think it's just like, that actor. Like, there's times that, like, I really do like his character in his performance, and then there's other times where I'm like, man, you do not know how to show emotion in any way, shape, or form.

>> Steve: Yeah, well, and m. I also feel. Yeah, yeah, there's. He gets ripped up. Right. And I don't feel like he. Like he's written. And you've brought this up before that. Parents aren't necessarily always written well.

>> Shannon: Yeah.

>> Leif: Well, these are big on the OC because, Yeah, Josh Schwartz was only 26 when. When the shit. When OC started and Peter Gallagher replaced Sandy, and I had to, like, go to him several times. Like, no, parents would not act like this.

>> Shannon: That's very funny.

>> Steve: but, yeah, but, when he's sitting there and he's playing the song because she walks in during the bridge of the song and they lock eyes and he plays through the rest of it. Oh, I do.

>> Steve: I want to hear Sandalwood. Sandalwood is the leaky Hawk song. The Lincoln Hawk song that I want to. Rose. Is it Rosewood? Yeah, it's Rosewood. Okay.

>> Leif: But, the mob had the scent of Sandalwood, so that's why he thought it was about her.

>> Steve: Right, right. Okay.

>> Leif: About Rosewood. Horse.

>> Steve: Yeah. Oh, yeah.

>> Leif: It's totally about your scent. Sandalwood.

>> Steve: Yeah. I have a horse. I have a rosewood. And, yeah, that's the song that I was really hoping, but. Oh, the other point I wanted to make is the lyrics of this song really also fit the rufus Lilly history. I'm walking to your door my heart's looking for something more You know it never feels right when I'm out here on my own left last night and it feels like way too long like, a lot of that smile and you'll make my life complete like, the pictures and stuff. so there was a lot of that connection in the actual song.

>> Shannon: Yeah. I don't know if it's a result of, like, getting older on this watch, I'm, like, far more intrigued by their story and their history than it happened in the past. I feel like their relationship is very interesting because it's, like, revealing itself over time, and it's not just, like, two.

>> Leif: Yeah. Yeah. I think they're definitely the best written couple so far.

>> Steve: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Leif: And that, Rufus finds Lily outside waiting for her town car and refuses to get out of the way. Of course, Lily has absolutely zero choice but to kiss Rufus right there on the streets of NYC.

>> Steve: Yes. Looks like roofie is finally happening.

>> Leif: Roofly.

>> Steve: Roofly.

>> Leif: Roof.

>> Steve: Why fly?

>> Leif: Or really.

>> Steve: Or really.

>> Shannon: Oh, we're trying to, roof. Lee, what are you talking. Talking about? Are you going to see it right now?

>> Steve: Lil fuss?

>> Shannon: Lilfus?

>> Leif: Lufas. Lufas.

>> Shannon: Yeah, they don't have a good lufas.

>> Leif: I think the most popular, I think, I believe, is rue fly. That's the one. That's.

>> Steve: Ah.

>> Leif: I've drawn message boards. but, I, like, really?

>> Steve: But this. Yeah, really, this. This, does go back. Like we said a little bit ago, you. When you run into these problems, you have to smash into them head on or go around them, because, Robin's point was, she said no, rufus. She said no twice, you know, get out of the way. And my response was like, I get that. Like, I really do. But there was all of New York that she could go around.

>> Shannon: Yeah. She says no in a way that's, like, I think, implying, like, yeah, I think it's flirtatious. All. Yeah, yeah.

>> Steve: Like, and if he moved, then, like, great, I'm gonna go grab her.

>> Shannon: I would. I would have a problem with that.

>> Steve: Yeah.

>> Shannon: Like, I feel like he's like, no, you're going to confront this right here, right now.

>> Steve: Yeah. You're either going to go around it or you're going to smash right through it because she could have easily gone, smash. Smash right through it.

>> Shannon: How do I. So do you guys like her character more or less for hooking up with. Because, like, obviously, like, rufus is the more likable between him and Bart, but then, like. Like, so to see her finally, like, hook up with him could be a good thing for some viewers, but it's also, like, she is cheating on her fiance the day before her wedding.

>> Leif: Yeah, I mean, we'll see if. What happens if she actually goes through at the wedding.

>> Shannon: Yeah. But do we like her for doing this, or do we judge her?

>> Steve: I mean, I'm really, personally, really in between it. Right. Like, I think that it's shitty to do to Bart, and I think that she, you know, and I think it's shitty to do to Serena because the whole reason she didn't do this before was for Serena. But also, she knows Serena might be kind of right now. so the timing might work better, but at the same time, like, I've wanted this since, like, I've wanted this so bad. Yeah, sorry, Becks.

>> Shannon: She was. Even though she shouldn't, she won me points with this.

>> Steve: Yeah, I. And that was my other point to Robin, is that she kissed him. Like, she's the one that steps up and kisses him.

>> Leif: Yeah.

>> Steve: Ah. And you can tell that she's into this. Like, she wanted this, too.

>> Shannon: Yeah.

>> Steve: It's probably a mistake. Like. Like, you know, realistically, lily, this is probably a big mistake, but go with your heart.

>> Leif: Serena, Chuck and Blair falling behind are searching for Dan when the car ID on Blair's phone pops up. Humphrey. Blair hands the phone to Serena, but it's Georgina. Another line. Georgina, let's Serena in on her plan to seduce Dan.

>> Steve: Wait, why is her. Why is the name Humphrey in the phone when earlier the guy called and is like, is this Dan?

>> Leif: No, that was, he was calling Dan's phone right.

>> Steve: From Serena's phone and said, is this Dan? But Serena's phone. It comes up.

>> Leif: Now it's Blair's phone.

>> Steve: Oh.

>> Leif: Oh, okay.

>> Steve: Because Serena lost a phone.

>> Leif: Yeah. Serena says, yeah, she calls.

>> Shannon: I was also confused.

>> Steve: So you know what? I now love that even more that she just has him as Huffery in her phone.

>> Shannon: I.

>> Leif: That is. That is. That is a long running thing.

>> Shannon: my heart.

>> Leif: It is a big deal when she finally calls him Dan.

>> Shannon: Yeah, my heart broke, though. And Serena is like, no, not Dan. He's too good.

>> Leif: Yeah. Yeah. sweetie, he's 16, and you just told him that you cheated on him. So it's like, yeah, why would he.

>> Steve: Yeah. And he broke up with you. Like, I'm done. I think is a breaker that.

>> Shannon: No, I'm gonna push back on this, but I'll wait till we get to the end of the episode, and I'm.

>> Steve: Not gonna disagree with that. Yeah.

>> Leif: For a little extra insurance, Georgina tosses the battery from Dan's phone before kissing him.

>> Shannon: Her sleight of hand.

>> Leif: Like, the episode ends as Dan and Chorgino walk the night in the streets of Queens hand in hand.

>> Shannon: Yeah, she has now, like, so what is. She's poured drugs into Serena's, drank sleight of hand. She's tossed the battery. She slipped, like, the video.

>> Steve: And she has committed several felony, like, felonies. Yeah, she gave a guy coke. Who odd. And then left him to die.

>> Shannon: Yeah.

>> Steve: On camera. And then blackmailed somebody.

>> Shannon: But Dan, are we at this? Is this the last scene?

>> Leif: That was the last scene.

>> Shannon: Okay. Yeah. Dan fucks up so bad here. Like, I'm sorry, but he has been, like, in love with Serena since before she even knew he existed. Like, that's the story that has been told. And, like, now he has her, and, like, she's super hot. She's super nice. She's bubbly, she's fun. Everybody likes her. She's rich. Like, you have literally, like, the best girl that you will ever get at your fingertips. She's been spiraling. You've noticed that.

>> Leif: Like, while I agree with you, we've actually already talked about this. How Dan are, you know, has already shown to be. He was in love with Vanessa and Serena at the same time.

>> Shannon: Yeah, but he wrote a. Like, he's just, like, he's done weight. Like, I feel like Serena is, like, the girl he never thought he could get while, like, Vanessa's, like, a, childhood best friend. Like, could, like, feasibly see a relationship.

>> Leif: Well, so they do kind of retcon it later in the show, but, like, at this point, it was Dan who told Vanessa that he loved her.

>> Shannon: Yeah.

>> Leif: Yeah. They reckon it later to be the opposite.

>> Shannon: Okay. I just, like, I just think he, like, fucks up so bad. Like, you don't, like, break up with someone and then that day, like, they didn't even have. Yeah. Like, they didn't really have a conversation about breaking up. You still don't really know what's going on with Serena.

>> Leif: Like, we also don't see much of Dan and Sarah, but, like, it's been said they've been hanging out for a few weeks.

>> Shannon: Zachary, which is also weird. Like, a new person just came into your life, and you're just best friends with her now. Like, I don't know. I think he fucks it up.

>> Leif: Yeah, he definitely does. Yeah, he definitely.

>> Shannon: Even if Serena had cheated on him, which, like, obviously we know she didn't, but he doesn't know that. But, like, still, like, it's just, like, he. He has been good to her up until this episode. And, like, on this rewatch, like, I. Like, I don't remember liking Dan's character much at all. And on this rewatch, like, I have kind of liked him, and I have liked their relationship. And then I got to this episode and was like, okay, yeah, I remember now.

>> Steve: No, and I do think it's fair that, like, that night, like, yeah, you've been hanging out with this person for a while, but, like, you're not giving it a day. Like, I get that.

>> Shannon: Yeah.

>> Steve: And I. Again, I go back to 16 year old me that. I mean, if I was mad enough at my girlfriend, I think I would have gone off with this other person. But also, I don't think I was a very good person when I was 16.

>> Leif: Yeah. I mean, just to confess, I've done pretty much exactly the same thing.

>> Steve: I feel like I may have at one point now.

>> Leif: it wasn't, like, the love of my life that I just broke up. It was with the girl that I was with for a few weeks. But, yeah.

>> Shannon: I just think it's so sad for Serena. She is a victim this entire.

>> Steve: Yeah.

>> Leif: Oh, yeah. It's definitely sad for Serena.

>> Shannon: There's so much shit going on, and then, like, the one. The one good thing in her life that has, like, really, like, brought her around and, like, has made her feel loved and accepted it, like, is Dan. And now for him to, like, do this, sir, is, like, how can she trust anyone ever again?

>> Steve: Yeah.

>> Leif: On top of Vita, what happened with her dad.

>> Steve: Yeah.

>> Shannon: Yeah.

>> Leif: So that is our. That is our episode. Steve, do you have any predictions for next week?

>> Steve: Well, I. Blair and Chuck are united against Georgina, and that is all I care about. I want to see what they have planned for her. I want to see how they take her down.

>> Leif: Might be someone else, working with Blair.

>> Steve: Oh, Jenny. I love Vanessa. I could see Vanessa. Vanessa and Blair working together would be interesting because they're say their last real interaction was over the tape. You know, their last big thing was over the tape.

>> Leif: Yeah.

>> Steve: And so that would be a good. A good team up, too.

>> Leif: We shall see. Well, Lily go through with the wedding?

>> Steve: I don't think so. I feel like she should, but I don't think she will. I feel like she's gonna bail and go with Rufus, and I think that that's going to be a new storyline because I'm. Because I'm also thinking that I'm feeling like this is it for Dan and Serena, too. I feel like this might be, at least for now, this might be the end of them for a bit. so those are my big predictions.

>> Leif: Let's go ahead and get into some segments. This week in fandom, I jumped into the wayback machine to check out the television without pity forums from after the episode aired. Pretty, much the biggest, thing is Dan sucks.

>> Steve: and it's kind of funny that all of the shit that has come back around on Dan for this, it's like it all stems from Dan being too judgmental.

>> Shannon: Yeah. If he was not such. If it wasn't so hypocritical.

>> Steve: Yeah. Yeah. And if he wasn't always so judgmental of everything anyway.

>> Shannon: Yeah.

>> Steve: He would have been let in earlier on, which she could have let him in anyway, because.

>> Leif: Serena should have told him this weeks ago.

>> Steve: Yeah.

>> Shannon: Yeah, she should have. But he's like, I don't know. For him to portray himself as a good guy, and he's so much more evolved than the rest of them. And then to really prove that he's not at all.

>> Steve: Yeah.

>> Leif: I'm Chuck bass.

>> Steve: I mean, it is the best use. you know what else is funny is that from that scene, I saw the very first couple of seconds of it when you and I started watching an I'm Chuck bass montage, and that was the second one. You're like, we're not going to watch this anymore because it was about to give away that whole thing.

>> Leif: Yeah.

>> Shannon: I think despite that being, like, the best use of I'm Chuck bass, like, in the series, my favorite line from this episode that is from him is just when. When fucking, blair is like, oh, like, what if I told you that Georgina is in queens right now, blah, blah, blah, and he's like, I'd say, let's get the bitch. Why? You just kind of like, that's it.

>> Leif: I also like when, Serena shows up the concert and, like, lucky for you, georgina's not here. Unlucky for me. Dad still is.

>> Shannon: Yeah, that is a great line, too. Yeah, he had a lot of great line. The call me sentimental. Like, you had a lot of really good lines this episode.

>> Steve: Yeah.

>> Leif: Ah, so everyone loved Nate, Blair, and Chuck all working together to take care of Serena, which we've already talked about quite a bit. So, yeah, no surprise there. people hate, Georgina and Michelle Trashenberg playing her. we've also talked about that. Georgina is channeling the hatred away from Vanessa. People continue to actually like her when she's with Nate and. And which we have also.

>> Steve: Michelle Trachtenberg does a lot for Vanessa. Yeah. But, like, Georgina sparks makes Vanessa so much more tolerable.

>> Shannon: Like, realized that Vanessa wasn't liked at this point. I, like, I didn't love her, but I didn't realize that was, like, the fandom.

>> Leif: She was hated from, like, instantly. And so, yeah, I guess you don't really remember the books, but the books. She was a student at Constance, so that, like, actually gave her a reason to be there. Like, they just, like, they screwed her over in the show because, like, she's always interloping.

>> Shannon: Yeah.

>> Leif: And by the nature of her backstory.

>> Steve: And always not only interloping, but just being the most invasive person in the.

>> Leif: Room walking to someone's house with a camera.

>> Steve: Yeah. And it's funny. Her. Her debut, her first episode, I was like. And Leif said, yeah, a lot of people don't like her, and I was like, really? Why? I, And, like, three episodes in, my notes were all like, fucking hell. Vanessa. Goddamn it, Vanessa. Put the camera away. Vanessa.

>> Leif: Yeah. So there's a split between the people not surprised by the overdose reveal, and the other half left, wanting more. they wanted Serena that actually, I've actually murdered someone. but I should have actually written out who predicted the Lion King situation in the prior episode, because they are dead on. Then, we get Serena and Dan breakup to make way for Lillian, Rufus, which we just talked about a little bit as well. And, of course, everyone's chair, chair, chair, chair. and one quote. Destroying people's lives is, like, foreplay for Chuck.

>> Steve: I love that quote.

>> Shannon: Oh, that's great.

>> Leif: So let's move on to some episode grades. I went first last time, so, Steve, you're up. first this time.

>> Steve: I gave this one a b. It would have been maybe lower for some of the writing choices with Michelle Trachtenberg, but Lisa Loeb and Lincoln. Hawk definitely raised the episode grade for me. it would have been probably a b minus if it weren't for those things, but it was okay.

>> Leif: What about you? Shatter?

>> Shannon: Yeah. Okay. I gave it a b minus. I feel like there are a lot of moving parts to this episode, and they're, like, they're moving the story forward. They're moving the characters forward. They're changing the dynamic between characters, which is all good, all great stuff. But, like, the letdown of the reveal is just, like, in the way that it's handled and how quickly Serena bounces back. Like, I just think it's too big of a failure to, like, get higher.

>> Leif: yeah. Honestly, I've always felt the show is downhill after the reveal. Yeah, it starts.

>> Steve: Yeah. I'd go two episodes earlier and say the writers strike. The writers strike everything after. I've just felt like, there was one really good one, and then it's just been steamrolling.

>> Leif: Yeah. I also gave it a b minus. He had a little bit up. You know, the concert saved it from being a c episode for me. It's like. Yeah, it was. The writing was bad. No jenny.

>> Shannon: no Eric.

>> Leif: No Eric. Yeah. I say, ah, be minus for me. Yeah, that's fair stock. watch. Who do you got going up this week, Steve?

>> Steve: up. I had Nate going up. Nate. I had Vanessa going up because the Nate and Vanessa thing is working. I had Georgina going up because she is, even though she sucks her. She's getting what she wants, she's still accomplishing her goals. is she well, she sleep like, she's sleeping.

>> Leif: Her goal is to be friends with Serena.

>> Shannon: I don't know what her goal was. I have no idea what drives this character.

>> Steve: Yeah, her one goal was over. She started a new one. I'm like, she got. She's walking off with Dan, and that's where I had her because she doesn't seem to be brought down at all.

>> Shannon: Yeah. For this sake, I wrote every character's name down then, like, little arrows to remind me of what I thought. And then next to her name, I just wrote wild card.

>> Leif: Anyone else going up?

>> Steve: Blair and Chuck getting. Getting chair back together to go after Georgina has my heart going. The two of them, they're stock one up for me.

>> Leif: All right, Sean, who do you have going up?

>> Shannon: Blair is my number one up for this episode. Close second is Chuck and Nate. The friendship pulled through this episode, and then I gave, I think, a little bump to Rufus because we got some see him in his element, and also Bart, because I think he handled himself well in this episode.

>> Leif: He did get cucked, though.

>> Shannon: Maybe that's his thing. Nothing wrong.

>> Steve: Lilly, we're a partnership. I think that we can work out all these things together.

>> Shannon: Despite, like, her behavior. For him to, like, just keep his cool is, like, there's something that, like, I respected about him, and he doesn't make a big thing of it. Like, it's very unusual.

>> Leif: I definitely did not have him going down. I just kind of had him neutral going up. I had actually had Lily, but, like, she started off bad. She started off horrible, but she did cover out, and she gave Serena what she needed, even though I think it was kind of a weird thing to do, just show up someone's house like that. but, yeah, she got. She got her daughter through that, and she. She got. She hooked up with her, the love of her life. And then we got Rufus going up because he had his big night, and he got to kiss Lily. Blair, obviously a great friend, you know, orchestrating the whole thing with the non judging breakfast club. And Chuck and Nate also, helping out, get it going up.

>> Shannon: A lot of ups, like, throughout the episode, like, a lot of characters pulling through this episode.

>> Leif: What do you got going down, Steve?

>> Steve: well, down. I have serena, for one. because.

>> Shannon: Really?

>> Steve: Yeah. I mean, just with everything just kind of spiraling, and she just may have lost Daniel, and, you know, she just didn't. You know, she had a lot of shit going on for her. Lily I actually had going down much more on a purely, like, financial, like, if she's choosing over Bart, I mean, she's got plenty of stock, is going to go down a little bit.

>> Leif: He's got more than enough money.

>> Steve: She does. She does. But also for that same reason I had Bart going down as well. because, you know, he's. He's kind of left out on the side. He doesn't really know what's going on. And there is that element of, like, Bart and Lily. If the two of you were fucking going to really be smart about this, Lily, you already stop making him give up all of his fucking jewelry salespeople and, just happen, rufus. And just. Yeah, you can have your power marriage and just be banging the rock star on the side. Like, that's what you've always wanted right there. Just loosen the grasp of Bart a little bit, and you guys are fucking golden. I also had Lisa Loeb going down for being the opening act to the most forgotten band. I love you so much, Lisa Loeb. Forgive me. And then I also had Dorota going down. Cause stitches get snitches. Snitches get stitches.

>> Leif: Shannon, anyone going down for you?

>> Shannon: Dan is my only down. And I. And I. It's like, three arrows down.

>> Steve: I had Dan going down, too. I'm sorry.

>> Shannon: Yeah, he, he really disappointed me.

>> Leif: Yeah, this is definitely Dan's worst episode. I had him going down as well, along with Serena, just because her life continues to spiral, and it looks like she's gonna be breaking up with Dan or if not already broken up. And I had Georgina going down because she wanted to be Serena's friend again, but now she has to resort to just petty revenge, and she's gonna get found out eventually. She has to know that at this point, she doesn't make sense.

>> Shannon: No.

>> Steve: Like, as a character other than just a pure chaos element.

>> Leif: Oh, yeah. Just like, she's going down in flames.

>> Steve: Yeah.

>> Leif: She's doing as much damage as possible as she goes down.

>> Shannon: She's, like, damaging herself in the process and also not really causing that much damage.

>> Steve: Yeah. Although she caused so much damage with something that was, like, innocuous.

>> Shannon: Yeah.

>> Steve: Like, they were, like, only hurt her.

>> Shannon: Yeah.

>> Steve: Like, show dan that video.

>> Leif: Steve, what did you have for best outfit?

>> Steve: I actually found this episode a little tough. There's a lot of, like, blacks and very straight. Like, a lot of the outfits all looked. but I had Lily's dress at the rehearsal as my favorite. but I just in general, didn't feel like a lot stood out. Also, shout out to Rufus's shirt, even though Robin made fun of it, that shows really dope.

>> Shannon: And with the roses.

>> Steve: They're with the roses. I'm like, that shirt's really dope. And Robin goes, you mean the one? You mean the one I was just making fun of?

>> Leif: Okay, how about you, Shannon?

>> Shannon: I picked chuck at the rehearsal dinner. He has, like, the pinstripe jacket and the crimson bowtie. And then, like, the shirt he's wearing underneath has, like, a very subtle color coordination going on, and he just, like, he looked sharp compared to. And I agree, it was hard to pick somebody from this episode because I didn't think, like, many outfits stood out. I did like Dan's jacket at the end. Well, as much as I hate Dan, I like his jacket.

ready dress. it was from the: 2008

>> Steve: Oh, cool.

>> Shannon: I think the reason I didn't like is just I didn't like the sleeves.

>> Leif: Yeah.

>> Shannon: I didn't like the tight sleeves here. Yeah.

>> Leif: And then, like, she also had, matching pen and earrings with gold and mother of pearl, like, pen and earring, matching set. And, then she had the black double breasted Burberry trench coat at the shaw over the top of it.

>> Shannon: I will say Georgina and Vanessa's jewelry, this episode, like, the weird scarf thing that Georgina's wearing, it looks like she's, like, fanny pack around her neck. Like, I don't. I'm so confused by it.

>> Leif: Well, that is it for segments. Shannon, thank you very much for joining us today.

>> Steve: This was a lot of fun. It was really nice to get another opinion in here and get another voice in here. And we really appreciate you joining us.

>> Leif: Definitely.

>> Shannon: Thank you for giving me an excuse to watch Gossip girl all weekend.

>> Steve: Oh, absolutely.

>> Leif: And, do you want to plug anything?

>> Shannon: Nope. I'm boring.

>> Leif: Social media. Social media. Anything.

>> Shannon: Shout out mom and dad.

>> Leif: All right, Steve, you plug in anything?

>> Steve: Yeah. As I mentioned before, on July 19, I will be at fat lady brewing. I'll be playing some music here in Maniunk. and so please come out. I will be playing every time my cover of every time by Lincoln Hawk that night as well. And other than that, please follow me on Facebook. Steve Marshawn. M m a r c h I o n on Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, and all of those things.

>> Leif: All right, well, you can follow me on Instagram Hot capicola, and you can follow the show at nunjudging breakfast pot on Instagram and TikTok. You can also follow us on the social, media formerly known as Twitter. We also have a Facebook group, just search for nonjudging practice pod.

>> Steve: And if you have any other questions or any comments and you want to get in touch with us, please email us@nonjudgingbreakfastpodmail.com. and we'll try to answer your questions on the podcast. And if you like the show, we also really appreciate if you leave a review on Spotify. Apple, I heart wherever you follow or listen to us. And also please tell a friend and like follow comment, tell a friend and listen to more episodes.

>> Leif: Yes, and ah, we will be back in two weeks with our next episode. Season one, episode 18 much I do about nothing. Yeah, Max. Episode preview reads Blair and Georgita face off.

>> Steve: And I definitely get the reference to the title of this one.

>> Shannon: I feel like you guys should fade away with the Lincoln Hawk song now.

>> Steve: I can make that happen.

>> Leif: Well, until next time. You know you love us. Xoxo.

>> Steve: I take care.